[Voodoo]

Heart toxin duration is supposed to be 15 seconds, however, fails frequently throughout a single fight and has to be reapplied sometimes 3-4 times during a fight.

This happens on most mobs I fight which are even-con to 5 levels above me. I can see it failing on the higher ones, but overall its way too frequent.

-Jezebelle (Adrios)

[Nightvision]

Voodoo, on 30 January 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:

Heart toxin duration is supposed to be 15 seconds, however, fails frequently throughout a single fight and has to be reapplied sometimes 3-4 times during a fight.

This happens on most mobs I fight which are even-con to 5 levels above me. I can see it failing on the higher ones, but overall its way too frequent.

-Jezebelle (Adrios)

It doesn't fail any more or less than any ranged attack that you use. Hits are determined by your bow skill level vs. your opponents defense skill level. Because it's extremely difficult to have your bow skill maxed out as you level a Ranger, the mobs you fight may have a significantly higher defense level than your bow skill.

For what its worth I feel your pain on this. As a fellow Ranger (not speaking as a QOL team member now), I'd like to see bow level skill-ups happen faster.

[Codex]

Well my ranger has 210 bow skill and I see what Voodoo descibes all the time and its not about mobs that are a couple lvls above but also mobs of equal lvl as my ranger. I see the same thing happen with bleed/mangle from my soldier with a high sword skill also. This started 2 patches ago. I`d like to point out that sometimes it takes 4-6 tries before it sticks and it seems like only when the mob is in your face when it does.

[Voodoo]

Codex, on 31 January 2010 - 06:02 AM, said:

Well my ranger has 210 bow skill and I see what Voodoo descibes all the time and its not about mobs that are a couple lvls above but also mobs of equal lvl as my ranger. I see the same thing happen with bleed/mangle from my soldier with a high sword skill also. This started 2 patches ago. I`d like to point out that sometimes it takes 4-6 tries before it sticks and it seems like only when the mob is in your face when it does.

Exactly. I also did not have this issue until a couple of patches ago. It is so frequent as to be an issue.

I'm glad you posted this. I just dinged 40 so have just started the skill-up to 200, but the problem is the same failure rate as my last level from beginning to end bow skill.

Edit to Add: I also have a better stick rate at close-up. Also, most often it fails immediately on application, so I am spamming my Heart Toxin hotkey to get it to stick.

This post has been edited by Voodoo: 31 January 2010 - 07:14 AM

[Kylwin]

"holds hand up" Same goes for me. I have the same issues with it. Either it hits and leaves right away or you have to shoot 3 or 4 times to get it to stick. I also noticed it started couple patches ago.

[Nightvision]

There have been no changes to the way this works for a long time, all the way back into beta. Nor does the hit calculation factor range in any manner.

That said, I had a discussion with Minuvo this morning and we have made a couple changes to the way DoTs will determine hit/miss that will result in a greater hit chance than you're seeing today. I've already made those changes to Heart Toxin and several other DoTs, and we'll roll that out to you in the next patch. However, what I posted earlier still applies. The greater the difference in your bow skill vs. the mob's defense level, the higher chance you'll miss the shot.

On a related note, when you see the icon on the target for a split-second and then it disappears, that's telling you that the shot missed. You can look at your combat log and it will indicate as much. We think showing the debuff icon for that moment is a bit of an ugly way to do it, so I'll be working with the server team this week to see if we can hide the icon on a miss. I'll provide players some other visual feedback for misses when we do.

[Voodoo]

Thank you :-)

I love the response level from QoL. Whether we like the response or not, it shows a dedication and respect for the players.

-Jezebelle, Adrios

[Voodoo]

Nightvision, on 31 January 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:

That said, I had a discussion with Minuvo this morning and we have made a couple changes to the way DoTs will determine hit/miss that will result in a greater hit chance than you're seeing today. I've already made those changes to Heart Toxin and several other DoTs, and we'll roll that out to you in the next patch. However, what I posted earlier still applies. The greater the difference in your bow skill vs. the mob's defense level, the higher chance you'll miss the shot.

On a related note, when you see the icon on the target for a split-second and then it disappears, that's telling you that the shot missed. You can look at your combat log and it will indicate as much. We think showing the debuff icon for that moment is a bit of an ugly way to do it, so I'll be working with the server team this week to see if we can hide the icon on a miss. I'll provide players some other visual feedback for misses when we do.

I don't think this made it into the patch. I'm currently level 45 with a 220/225 bow skill, and I'm seeing:

Your Heart Toxin missed Culsa Mistwalker
Your Heart Toxin missed Culsa Mistwalker
Your Heart Toxin missed Culsa Mistwalker

Culsa Mistwalker is level 31.

-Thanks, Jez, Adrios :-)

[Nightvision]

When I said I fixed it in the previous post, what I really meant is I broke it. Anyhow, I have now fixed it for the next patch. I just finished running a test using Heart Toxin over 500 times and the miss rate is where we want it to be. Thanks everybody, and sorry for the inconvenience.

[Voodoo]

Nightvision, on 08 February 2010 - 12:29 PM, said:

When I said I fixed it in the previous post, what I really meant is I broke it. Anyhow, I have now fixed it for the next patch. I just finished running a test using Heart Toxin over 500 times and the miss rate is where we want it to be. Thanks everybody, and sorry for the inconvenience.

LOL, that's funny. Thanks for looking into it :-)


-Jez, Adrios

[Sortiarius]

Since the patch, Heart Toxin has been a lot worse for me and I am wondering if it's the same for others.

Sometimes I get HT to stick the first or second shot, then other times I have had to shoot it 6-8 times before it sticks. All on the same mobs. I have tried other mobs with the same inconsistancies.

I tried on raptors 5 levels below me and it is still very inconsistant as to whether it sticks or not, or after 2-3 shots.

Personally I feel it is way to inconsistant and it's very frustrating.

I am also seeing a much higher resistance to Leg Shot, and it dropping soon after it sticks.


Sorti

[Nightvision]

A few things here:

First, I re-ran the test I did the other day, this time with exactly 500 HT shots. The results were again exactly where we'd expect them to be for hit percentage. I'm confident it's now working as intended.

I'll restate what I led off this thread posting. Your character level isn't the determining factor for combat results, it's your skill level with the item you are using for your attack. In this case (of course) we're talking about bow skill. One way you can think of this is if you divide your bow skill level by 5, that's going to be your "effective" level against the mob you're engaging. Now, I don't know what your character's skill level with bows is, it may well be maxed out. I'm just tossing that out there to make sure we're on the same page.

The other thing is just plain old luck. Anybody that's gathered the Transfigured Vapors for the Dawning quest will agree that some days you have it and some days you don't. This certainly plays out in relation to combat result rolls. Again, I'm sure everybody is aware of the luck factor but it's worth mentioning.

Lastly to the point you raise about debuffs "sticking" on the target. We're still working on the improvement I mentioned in a post above, where the debuff icon won't be shown on the target when your shot misses. Until that change is rolled out you'll continue to see the icon on the target for a split-second before it drops off. Again, it means the shot missed.

BTW- I'll run leg shot through a 500-shot test now too just to make sure it's also hitting with appropriate regularity. If I don't make a new post here about it in a couple hours it's safe to assume it's also where we want it to be.

[Sortiarius]

My ranger, Theron, is level 41. his bow skill is 184/205, lets say 185 for easy numbers.
So 185/5=37 for my "Effective Level" is 37. The only quests I get is at Bridgehead killing level 50's...... Sweet! How is that for effectiveness? /sarcasm off

Anyways, my studies in Martial Discipline is maxed out at rank 5, yet I am over halfway thru level 41 (205/5=41) and still at 184. So this all seems a bit out of proportion and it feels like you are never ahead of the game and always playing catch up.

Since it is working as intended, I will go find some 37 mobs, various ones to account for resistances, and see how effective I am.

Oh, does the skill level/5=effective level rule apply to melee weps as well?

Sorti

[Nightvision]

Yes, melee works the same as ranged with regard to weapon skill and combat results.

Believe me I understand where you're coming from with the bow skill thing, I said as much in my first post in this thread. Best advice I can give as a player is to find a Soldier that wants to buddy up with you to grind out a few levels. That way you can stay ranged and get some skill-ups.