22 replies to this topic

[Vanpry]

/rant
I am so @#$%% tired of running around trying to find some dumb @#$%#@$%@ that only spawns at one location and the quest are so vague you have to run around for god knows how long to find this idiot.
/end rant
Sorry but I am really tired of quest or at least how vague quests are. Go to this general vicinity and try to find X guy. GRRRRR. GD needle in a hey stack missions. Ok now I'm really done ranting.

[Syndic]

vegness

OK I looked it up and that's not even a word . I believe I know what you mean, I think I've just learned to live with it. What I hate is finding the named off in the distance and working your way towards them only to have another player run past at the last moment and kill it in front of you.

[Vanpry]

OK I looked it up and that's not even a word . I believe I know what you mean, I think I've just learned to live with it. What I hate is finding the named off in the distance and working your way towards them only to have another player run past at the last moment and kill it in front of you.

Wow yeah I really butchered that, corrected.

[Smoothstone]

I'm sure the quest location you seek will be found in the library

And once you turn it in, the quest giver will ask for...

ANOTHER SHRUBBERY! and a little path in between.

How can we bring about a new paradigm? What else is there besides kill 5 of these, collect 7 of those, talk to this guy before talking to the girl in that other place, 9 times?

I agree, we are looking for much, much more. To narrow the line of philosophical questioning, I propose we examine our own lives to discover the things we find most rewarding. Integrating those into Alganon will come next

[Berek]

We have all sorts of quests in Alganon . I think you will find the interaction between the quest system and library to be interesting. Another thing that may help you out is through the MyAlganon community system we will be talking more about in the coming days.

[Jergis]

-Variation is the key for me. I don't mind fetching shrubberies if we interpose some killing, talking, and seeing cool environments between fetch missions. As for what is rewarding, i like to see new things, experience a well-written quest or story arc, well-done uglies and environments, and generally rewards for my avatar. My real life i find time with my family the most rewarding, but that's hard to translate in a game.

Jergis, beginning year 5 of trying to convince his wife to play MMOs with him an hour or two a night.

[Berek]

Jergis, I can relate to how difficult it is to get the family involved. Years ago I recall teaching my mother EverQuest. It took her about 3 hours to get to level 2... and that's as far as she got! Fortunately, times have changed and overall just about everyone plays an MMO today .

[Mouglue]

Variation is the key.

a few of the first mmorpgs started off with mostly "Mob" killing.. You know, camp here and kill kill kill....
Once in a while go do some "Epic" quest but it was more for the UBER armor then experience or leveling.

Then it seems the people complained...

So they went the complete other direction. In later games, (and expansions to the older games) Leveling up now is just a series of quests.... One right after the other.... Go get this.. Kill him... Get this again.. Turn in.. Get next quest... go to next town... rince repeat.

And the people are complaining.

The industry is looking for the "Next Leveling" system..
What will it be?

[Akshobhya]

Variation is the key.

And customization! Let's say we were able to create our own arch enemy (I think Champions Online is going this route too, for example), then we get quests to fight that bad guy that are slightly randomized. Now I can help my friends on the same quest but its still slightly different. Maybe his fights are set on different maps. And its a different bad guy. Now things are more interesting.

[Convo]

questing has become the biggest reason why I quit games. I don't even feel like reading them anymore. I gave lotro free trial a shot and lasted about 15 mins b/c I didn't feel like doing the quest. Something was just missing for me.

[Hasala]

Yes, questing can become very tiresome. As stated before, people will complain if there isn't enough or if there is too much. It's very difficult now days to find a balance to please all. Bottom line is you wont please all. There will always be those that complain no matter what you do.

I think if done with some imagination and adds to the story it is fine. I have gotten used to doing them and they don't really bother me anymore.

I think this is where a very good crafting model comes into play. When you get tired of grinding out the quests, resource gathering and/or crafting is a nice break.

[Convo]

I just don't have the patience for them anymore. I don't read quest anymore. Half them just have way too much text to begin with. I would prefer 3 quests that are very long and meaningful than walking into a new area that looks like a casino with all the npc lights. For example, Noob gear quest chain or an epic quest similar to EQ. I may even prefer a puzzle type quest that made me figure out what area I needed to go to, then when I got there, I had to find the next clue that would send me some place else. Something engaging that doesn't feel mind numbing. Most games today make questing the best way to level up. I think games are too focused on it.

[Jergis]

-I hope they provide options for meaningful and robust content for both quest-hounds and those that just want to avoid the reading and get to the advancing.

Even us quest-hounds would appreciate a change of pace option, and i agree in some games the quests are done badly enough to not even warrant reading. Hopefully this isn't going to be one of those games.

Jergis

[DeLang]

I really appreciate questing. It can be a way to gain character progression via solo, group and raiding playstyles. Hopefully there will be alternate and equally expedient ways to progress your character via solo, group and raiding. When questing is implemented as the most expedient (by far) route to character progression, then it can become an issue; especially if that quest progression requires a narrow social playstyle.

For example, if you've played a game for 3 years, preferring group content and levelling via dungeon crawls, and the game releases an expansion which no longer reasonably permits that grouping progression route and forces players into a protracted solo quest series, then the fun stops for the groupers.

Seems like balance is the key. The same way classes need to be balanced, progression avenues need balance. Balance the progression routes available to social playstyles (solo, group, raid) and to content playstyles (questing, mob grinding, achievements, etc.)

[Syndic]

I like variation but I'm not sure how much more there is than kill this, collect this, speak to soandso.

I would love to see some quests that require solving puzzles. The one that sticks in my mind is in DDO where I walked into a room and there was a 4x4 brick pattern on the ground with some pieces missing, once the pieces were slotted in the water ran through the puzzle (like the old pipe games) and opened the door to the next room.

You certainly wouldn't have that in every quest becuase they would just get repeatitive and boring, but lots of little interactions and in different way certainly adds enjoyment to your play.

I love how EQ2 gives you quests in lots of different ways, talking to NPC's, item drops, objects in the world. Some of these quests don't have a particular target but just get completed as you adventure. The Lore and Legends which teach you about a particular type of mob, which once complete gives you an attack against that mob. The collections on the ground, shiny hunting is one of my favourite pastimes, and a group of players all racing for the prize that you glimpse in the distance is amusing to say the least.

I think the next step for quests is that real interaction with the world, where you get to pick things up, move them around, detroy them, throw them, combine them, take them apart etc etc. Once you really start interacting with objects you introduce puzzles and thats something nearly all MMO games lack.

[Rommie]

I love and hate quests at the same time. I can get into Quest-Obsession and hunt down the very last obscure or time-consuming quest. I can also get fed up with quests that are blatant time-sinks.

I played a lot of the EQ2 Test Server, because you could experience what few player get to do - discover and solve a quest without a walk-through or database site. It's an experience I wish more people could have, but it's darn near impossible to keep quest guides from hitting the printing press a few minutes after the first person or group finishes it.

Putting that aside, I do like a well designed quest or quest series that rewards knowledge of a game or a subject.

[Grymmoire]

.....I would love to see some quests that require solving puzzles.

.....I love how EQ2 gives you quests in lots of different ways, talking to NPC's, item drops, objects in the world. Some of these quests don't have a particular target but just get completed as you adventure. The Lore and Legends which teach you about a particular type of mob, which once complete gives you an attack against that mob. The collections on the ground, shiny hunting is one of my favourite pastimes, and a group of players all racing for the prize that you glimpse in the distance is amusing to say the least.

.....I love and hate quests at the same time. I can get into Quest-Obsession and hunt down the very last obscure or time-consuming quest. I can also get fed up with quests that are blatant time-sinks.

.....I played a lot of the EQ2 Test Server, because you could experience what few player get to do - discover and solve a quest without a walk-through or database site. It's an experience I wish more people could have, but it's darn near impossible to keep quest guides from hitting the printing press a few minutes after the first person or group finishes it.

Another example of an excellent "puzzle-type" inclusion I considered absolutely brilliant were the word lock treasure chests contained withih the game Krondor. If any remember, there was a short rhyme that when solved, resulted in a word used to "spin" the tumblers on the chest to get the reward inside. I know the counter argument is that spoiler sites would just give players the solution, however for those that like to solve things on their own, these were great. They took a lot of thinking to create and some to solve.

I often wondered if random rhymes could not just be placed on chests to make it harder than just running to x-y coordinates and using a spoiler site and entering a pre-ordained word, if a system like this was ever employed...or should one even care what others may use as short-cuts? Another way to address this would be random loot in the chest but keep the puzzle static I suppose.

Btw Syndic, I too like those "shiny" collectibles ( guess I must be part Raven or Crow eh!?) lol.

What Rommie points out in the above statement, indicates that at least some players do like to solve things on their own, however, too many Beta testers use their experiences to log evey inch of a game, noting placement of resources; mobs; dungeons; camps and number-crunch on class compostions etc. for their personal and or guild's exclusive leveling after release, which enables them to control market goods and spawn locations in at least the initial release phases. And unfortunately, many just divulge all the game "surprises" to get their ego's stroked and claim to be the numero uno source of game knowledge....very sad. And unfortunately, too many players have seemed to become reliant on this and thus the joy of personal discovery in those games has been diluted.

[Sharra]

What Rommie points out in the above statement, indicates that at least some players do like to solve things on their own, however, too many Beta testers use their experiences to log evey inch of a game, noting placement of resources; mobs; dungeons; camps and number-crunch on class compostions etc. for their personal and or guild's exclusive leveling after release, which enables then to control market goods and spawn locations in at least the initial release phases. And unfortunately, many just divulge all the game "surprises" to get their ego's stroked and claim to be the numero uno source of game knowledge....very sad.

Well, actually as far as I understand, Alganon is incorporating just this in the game itself with The Library:

http://www.alganon.com/features

So while the fame goes to the discoverer, the fruit of hes labor goes to everybody. Which I think is a nice thing.

[Zianix]

Variation is the key.

You said it!

I would like to see some new stuff though. "A game in the game" would be cool. For example, Might and magic had a type of game called Arcomage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcomage) which you could play in taverns, to win money... and also to solve some quests!

I liked it a lot. But then again, I loved the bug-fest games of Might & Magic 6,7,8 rpg series (not heroes of m&m) that's nostalgic for me.

[Copenhagen]

While this is some what upsetting at times esp when you can't find said mob, item or whatever. It does add something that RPG games are actually all about.


Adventure.

Questing.

I mean Power leveling to the end of the game to stand around and go "Where's the content promised?" does nothing but force what happened in WOW.


They give you a bunch of "Grinds" to keep your mouth shut up while they work on something worth putting out.