5 replies to this topic

[Dagonet]

I submitted a report on what appears to be a group xp bug, but wanted to discuss group xp and the general topic of social interaction a bit further in the forums.

Because solo levelling can be done fairly easily by every class, there are very few reasons in Alganon to group outside of instances. Grouping is generally encouraged in multi-player games by offering a greater rate of experience gain or the ability to tackle stronger mobs to obtain better drops for the respective character level. In theory, Alganon's instances are designed to encourage grouping, offering superior equipment to those who brave the challenge. However, in practice, grouping for instances rarely occurs in the formative levels, as the instances are markedly more difficult than two or three like-level characters can handle, and due to the population of the game it is very difficult to pull together a larger group. Further, xp when grouping is penalized so greatly that players have a strong incentive to not group.

In my view, this lack of proper incentives for grouping is a serious shortcoming in any multi-player game, leading to less social interaction. In many products, long after the game content has lost its luster, players keep coming back and continuing to enjoy the product because they are playing with friends that they've gained through the years. From my observation, newcomers to Alganon are likely to experience little social interaction in actual gameplay; what interaction occurs is primarily chatter on the channels, to the point that I usually feel like I am playing a solo game with a chat program open to talk to other people playing the same solo game.

I suspect that the designers share a similar view on incentives (it's certainly not a revolutionary concept) and rewarding players for interaction. The drops from mobs outside of the instances typically have a minimum use level of about 5 levels below the mob's level, which suggests that if a small group is uphunting a few levels, they'll be getting good drops for their level. The major problem is still the crippling xp penalty that is applied to groups. That may well be a bug, though.

When grouped, the combat display says you've gained XXX xp + YYY group xp, but the character's xp bar only increments by XXX. That suggests to me that the design intent is to encourage grouping for xp, but it's not working properly.

If, though, the group xp is working as intended, perhaps the designers can share the rationale behind it.

[Padreic]

We're looking into that last bit for group xp - the math definitely doesn't add up (though it's not off by much). Thanks for the info - we'll get back to you on it!

Edit: Yep, the bonus xp for being in a group isn't being applied correctly. We've got a bug in for it and will start working on a fix. Thanks again for bringing this up!

[Dagonet]

Great to hear, and thanks for the quick response.

[Dagonet]

We're looking into that last bit for group xp - the math definitely doesn't add up (though it's not off by much). Thanks for the info - we'll get back to you on it!

Edit: Yep, the bonus xp for being in a group isn't being applied correctly. We've got a bug in for it and will start working on a fix. Thanks again for bringing this up!

Oof, now that the fix is in, what a disappointment. The previous displays I was seeing were showing base Xp cut by about 40%, but the group xp bonus portion brought the total back to roughly what a solo'er would see.

With the patch, while the group xp bonus is actually getting applied now, the magnitude of the bonus in the cases I checked has been markedly cut from what the previous displays were showing. Couple that with the substantial cut in base XP for being in a group, and we're nearly right back where we were to begin with. What was an effective ~40% xp penalty for grouping before the patch is now an effective ~30% penalty. This continued application of a strong disincentive to group will result in the status quo being maintained: solo til 50, then hope that enough players have stuck around to be able to form groups for WF or PvP.

I like this game, but there has to be a better design philosophy when it comes to rewarding grouping. I don't consider a game to be a true multi-player if 49 out of 50 levels are in practice achieved solo.

[Heath]

We're looking into that last bit for group xp - the math definitely doesn't add up (though it's not off by much). Thanks for the info - we'll get back to you on it!

Edit: Yep, the bonus xp for being in a group isn't being applied correctly. We've got a bug in for it and will start working on a fix. Thanks again for bringing this up!

Oof, now that the fix is in, what a disappointment. The previous displays I was seeing were showing base Xp cut by about 40%, but the group xp bonus portion brought the total back to roughly what a solo'er would see.

With the patch, while the group xp bonus is actually getting applied now, the magnitude of the bonus in the cases I checked has been markedly cut from what the previous displays were showing. Couple that with the substantial cut in base XP for being in a group, and we're nearly right back where we were to begin with. What was an effective ~40% xp penalty for grouping before the patch is now an effective ~30% penalty. This continued application of a strong disincentive to group will result in the status quo being maintained: solo til 50, then hope that enough players have stuck around to be able to form groups for WF or PvP.

I like this game, but there has to be a better design philosophy when it comes to rewarding grouping. I don't consider a game to be a true multi-player if 49 out of 50 levels are in practice achieved solo.

I agree. Sounds like the fix just put the xp gain back to where it was; That is a disappointment. We need better incentives for group play!

[BVRBandit]

I agree with the sentiments in this thread and will be taking it up with the team to see how best we can address this