28 replies to this topic

[Jergis]

-Sylvain; sounds like an elf to me. Tired fantasy cliche or necessary and familiar for gamers of all ages?

This is the first of six speculative posts that asks you, dear reader, what you'd like to see from the races of Alganon. Myself, i'd like to see an elf-type done with the mysticisim and wisdom that comes from a long life. If that takes the form of a racial ability for divination-type skills, or simply a knowledge about the world at large, or even access to people and places other races know not about, that would show at least a bit of thought. If they just slap pointy ears and a boost to intelligence and study, however...

...well that's just not very creative at all.

Yes there are balance issues with any racial abilities, and in the end there may not be much of a difference. But if you were designing an elf-type race for a computer game or a campaign for your homebrewed pen-and-paper RPG, what would you like to see from the race?

Jergis

[Velkyn]

-Sylvain; sounds like an elf to me. Tired fantasy cliche or necessary and familiar for gamers of all ages?

This is the first of six speculative posts that asks you, dear reader, what you'd like to see from the races of Alganon. Myself, i'd like to see an elf-type done with the mysticisim and wisdom that comes from a long life. If that takes the form of a racial ability for divination-type skills, or simply a knowledge about the world at large, or even access to people and places other races know not about, that would show at least a bit of thought. If they just slap pointy ears and a boost to intelligence and study, however...

...well that's just not very creative at all.

Yes there are balance issues with any racial abilities, and in the end there may not be much of a difference. But if you were designing an elf-type race for a computer game or a campaign for your homebrewed pen-and-paper RPG, what would you like to see from the race?

Jergis

I would think that the Sylvain would have an affinity towards nature with a high dexterity. Kind of reminds me of the old AD&D Sylph (similar but not exact) with a touch of Elf. My imagination is running here with this... but as creatures of nature I think Triasha, goddess of nature, would be a really nice fit for RP reasons. And since all the plants and animals of Ardonya worship her, it would make sense that her followers would commune with each other in praising her.

Which brings me to another thought; if the above is true then the next logical thought would be cooperation among her followers which would lead to the obvious conclusion that those that worship Triasha may be granted extra bonuses, in some fashion, when it comes to the outdoor environment (plants and animals).

Which leads me to ANOTHER thought ...

An Asheroth|Sylvain|Ranger may be my 'main' when the Sylvain race is released. At least it's something to ponder/fantasize about while I wait for more information; especially in light of the fact that I usually gravitate towards the Elven side of the house.

[Syndic]

especially in light of the fact that I usually gravitate towards the Elven side of the house.

and your signature gives no clues as to that inclination at all

[Velkyn]

I would like to see what you guys think about the Sylvain race.

Should the Sylvain be elf-like? RPing as an elf is fun, elves are always a fun addition to the lore. What angle would you like to see the Sylvain portrayed as? Tolkien elves are different than WoW elves, and are different than D&D elves -- which aspects do you like best?

When I first saw Sylvain as a future Asheroth race I immediately thought of a creature closer to nature and the wilds. Thin, lithe, and graceful.. a pointy ear or two, slight tint to the skin, etc. Maybe a race that would be more 'delicate' but make up for this in a slightly higher dexterity and quickness.

Your thoughts?

[Grymmoire]

Well, Sylvain is a French derivation of Silvanus who was the Roman god of forests. The Roman name is derived from Latin silva "wood, forest".

That description could connote an elven-like race or perhaps a dryad\fairy\sprite race, both meeting the lithe, graceful and quick, darty profiles, with pointy ears and one even having delicate but strong wings. The Trials of Ascension (now in development limbo or dead?) proposed both Fey (winged) and Groundling Non-winged) Pixies.

If I had a vote, I would cast it for the sprites. Just something about small, quick darty creatures that can be so deadly if they need be that intrigues me; have seen some really mean looking fantasy art of dryads\male fairy counterparts that would scare the bejeezus out of me in a dark forest.

[Drox]

I would have to agree that they seem in general to be a nature / forest based race.

They would call the forest their home land and would have powerful abilities that tie into nature. It's always hard to make a race like that balanced enough to have multiple classes but I would say just have them be specialized to some type of caster.

They would be really powerful with attack spells that pulled energy from the forces of nature, and could equally be good at healing with the force of nature.

They could have a rich background then tied into the world all based around casting. Maybe they had some evil and good ancient ancestors that helped shape the world as it is today based on their advanced casting knowledge.

I think having elves and a sylvain race split up like this would be pretty cool.

Elves would still be elvish but would be more balanced to have paladins, rangers, healers, and some casters etc... but sylvains would be the true casters and nothing else.

[Danj]

Why do nature protectors have to be traditionally elf like?

Why not wolf like? Long winded, community minded with efficient debilitating attacks.
Someone who would keep the peace of the forest because you knew if you transgressed they would hunt you down, never stopping to rest....

[Grymmoire]

Why do nature protectors have to be traditionally elf like?

Why not wolf like? Long winded, community minded with efficient debilitating attacks.
Someone who would keep the peace of the forest because you knew if you transgressed they would hunt you down, never stopping to rest....

No reason at all actually, however, we are speculating upon the nature of the "racial" qualities and as an aside, what areas they may inhabit, but not thier roles.

On the other hand, you have hit upon another related question imo, that being certain roles seemingly always relegated to stereotypic racial models, i.e. Elves as rangers in a forest setting or Dwarves mining, just because most lore always has them in that role.

The "role" of "nature protectors" seems to have been set as that of a Warden; however, nothing states what racial types will, if any be allowed to have only that role. Therefore, Sylvains, regardless of whether they are elven; dryads; wolfish; tree-creatures or whatever racial composition need not necessarily be only Wardens, the nature protectors.

So, as we are discussing, the two concepts of what a Sylvain may appear as racially and what roles they play are seperate and at this point in the information pool, would allow exactly what you describe too. Perhaps the Kodian are a Wolfish or Bearish type creatures that are actually the choice for "nature protectors".

[Hyuu]

I love this discussion!

Here's part of the Sylvain lore that is solid:

" The gods recognized that their decision to focus on industrialization had caused a serious oversight in the world. Forests were being stripped, and lakes were being poisoned. Realizing their mistake, they needed a race deeply attuned to nature, the lands, all living things, especially the plants and animals. They created the Sylvain, a proud tall extremely intelligent with a talent for the magical arts. The Sylvain learned to work with the Humans and Dronar in peace as the rebuilding took place, helping their friends understand the importance of balance, magic and beauty. "

But that still leaves a lot of room for creative interpretations. I'm sure someone reading this has an idea I'd never have thought of (like the wolven idea! Keep them coming!)

Do you like wings? (It seems kinda' girly, but I'll admit that I like them). What if they are "plant" and not "animal"? Do you like pointed ears, or are they too cliche? I've always been a fan of long-legs and thin physiques, how do you see their body structure?

On these forums, feel free to post "what you'd like to see" more than "what you think we came up with" -- since we will take your posts into account as we mold and shape Alganon! The only way you can post a "wrong answer" is if you really want X, but tell us you want something else.

(If you can't tell, I love the idea of letting the players influence the design of the game! Keep the suggestions rolling!)
- Hue

[Aonaran]

(If you can't tell, I love the idea of letting the players influence the design of the game! Keep the suggestions rolling!)
- Hue

I love hearing you say that. While I think there is a lot of good ideas and some bad ideas (my opinion only) the main thing that matters is these ideas are being shared, shaped and listened to. Alganon FTW

Anyhow....my thoughts on Sylvain. I really enjoyed the Dryads in Horizons...they were only small though so maybe make them a bit bigger....they had wings but they couldnt fly...only hover....but they had awesome body decorations and all. Another neat thing for Sylvain would be if they blended into their environments if they stand still...I am not talking about going invisible....but if they started growing leaves or branches in the forest or stuff like that....

[Velkyn]

Sounds like a perfect fit for the Warden class (Asheroth|Sylvain|Warden) by the description of the Warden.

I will use Magus here as an example because the Warden information is not yet released: If one were to compare a Human Magus to a Talrok Magus, would the spells be the same or would they differ based upon the race (if they both specialized in Flame)?

While it would be nice to see spell differences between the races in the same specialization, I'm sure the Dev's would find it easier to balance the classes/races for the Crusades and epic battles if they were even across the board.

I think I'm going to have to roll up a Sylvain/Warden one day and see how it plays out.

Hmm... plant and animal, now that's an interesting thought. Twigs and leaves in the hair, bark or leaf colored skin, and the thought of blending perfectly with nature cries out the very thought of Sylvain! I also picture them as lithe, light to the touch, and fluid. I'm glad to see they are getting a base INT advantage although DEX also comes to mind when I think of this race because of their balance, beauty and attunement with nature.

[Syndic]

I think I'd like to see a tree type of race, although I think it would be hard to get armour to fit them, depending on if they all had the same body shape, which would seem unusual for a tree people. They certainly could have some nice racial abilities, if there are going to be something like that.

They could also be an Ape sort of race, tall doesn't have to mean they stand up straight. Also would think an Ape would be in tune with the forest and wildlife, they can also certainly be intelligent. Although apes like this tend to give me images of Planet of the Apes, which is not something I'd be aiming for, maybe something a little more primal than that.

Also thinking of other animals that would be cool to play as a race, a snake race. I'm not talking about lizards that are usually seen in games but a slithering slimey snake (most likely even without legs). They are quite easily depicted as intelligent animals, and tall is easy given the length. The only hitch here is that snakes maybe hard pressed to be placed into the "attuned to nature" corner, although if the race was placed to take care of nature wouldn't you pick from the higher members of the food chain.

Then you have the Cat races, which there is a fair few of them around to get ideas from.

I'd go further but have to get back to work

[Drox]

I don't think I want to see city of the ape's anytime soon in an MMO!

I like your ideas about different animals. Some of the problems include what you mentioned it is hard to define them with a set of clothing etc... to make them fun to play as.

On that same topic it's hard to make a good enough animal class that a lot of people will want to play. The animal rulers tend to be some type of cat like animal / human figure.

Or a lot of times you get the classes that can transform into animals like some games have druid's transform into wolves, Shaman into bears, or wizards into some type of drake etc...

I think I sort of like the transformation route better myself. It deletes the need to have armor on an animal figure. Because your normal figure is human like (or something similar) that wears armor but your transformed animal is more primitive and just either has some small set of clothing or none at all etc...

I think it's cool to be able to switch back and forth from human to animal.

Maybe it would be cool if the sylvains were some type of winged creature like we would assume they are but they also have the ability to transform into some type of animal based upon the class of sylvain they are.

[Grymmoire]

I think I'd like to see a tree type of race, although I think it would be hard to get armour to fit them, depending on if they all had the same body shape, which would seem unusual for a tree people. They certainly could have some nice racial abilities, if there are going to be something like that.

Also thinking of other animals that would be cool to play as a race, a snake race. I'm not talking about lizards that are usually seen in games but a slithering slimey snake (most likely even without legs). They are quite easily depicted as intelligent animals, and tall is easy given the length. The only hitch here is that snakes maybe hard pressed to be placed into the "attuned to nature" corner, although if the race was placed to take care of nature wouldn't you pick from the higher members of the food chain.

Then you have the Cat races, which there is a fair few of them around to get ideas from.

Unbelievable...as I was looking for good examples of exactly these three potential choices for the Sylvain, Syndic posts his identical ideas...as Aereon said near the end of the Chronicles of Riddick: "Now what would be the odds of that?"

I envision a "tree-person" possessing the following:

* Humanoid body type (human model for easier amimations and integration) modified with a tree appearance, slender, bark-like skin texture; colorings of white, browns, grays and bluish-black.
* Height of 8-10 feet as compared to a typical MMO game human.
* "Hair" consisting of closely aligned branches in differing styles, covered with leaves, perhaps even permitting vibrant "bush" type colors (reds, yellows, orange-reds purples) for variety. Bald avatars would be just bare branches.
* Markings could be moss, motteling, knotholes, scars and carvings.
*Slender "ropey" arms with long, slender "branchy" 5 digit fingers, perhaps woven or knoted before the fingers ended.
* Slender legs that end in "root-like" feet. Keep feet exposed and allow armor slot but have it be a hidden one.

The following two examples are not quite what I mean, but you get an idea.







I envison something like this for a Sylvain based upon a snake:


By Grymmoire


For a Sylvain feline,there would be a lot of customization options available. I would prefer something based upon the Horizon's model of the Saris as shown here:


By Grymmoire

[Williwaw87]

I love this discussion!

Here's part of the Sylvain lore that is solid:

" The gods recognized that their decision to focus on industrialization had caused a serious oversight in the world. Forests were being stripped, and lakes were being poisoned. Realizing their mistake, they needed a race deeply attuned to nature, the lands, all living things, especially the plants and animals. They created the Sylvain, a proud tall extremely intelligent with a talent for the magical arts. The Sylvain learned to work with the Humans and Dronar in peace as the rebuilding took place, helping their friends understand the importance of balance, magic and beauty. "

But that still leaves a lot of room for creative interpretations. I'm sure someone reading this has an idea I'd never have thought of (like the wolven idea! Keep them coming!)

Do you like wings? (It seems kinda' girly, but I'll admit that I like them). What if they are "plant" and not "animal"? Do you like pointed ears, or are they too cliche? I've always been a fan of long-legs and thin physiques, how do you see their body structure?

On these forums, feel free to post "what you'd like to see" more than "what you think we came up with" -- since we will take your posts into account as we mold and shape Alganon! The only way you can post a "wrong answer" is if you really want X, but tell us you want something else.

(If you can't tell, I love the idea of letting the players influence the design of the game! Keep the suggestions rolling!)
- Hue

Peresonally, I think the Sylvain should be similar to wood elves. The Kodian (Sp?) already seems like the more animal like class. I don't think wings would be appropriate. Because Silva means forest, I don't think of flight. However, I think they should be able to travel through the treetops like squirrels.
As for the pointed ears, I think that they should be optional. Then no one could complain.
Also, because they are such a proud race, I think that they should be tall, but sleek. I don't know whether this is possible, but maybe you could play around with their gait.

[Dendro]

If the Sylvain are so attunded to nature how about an elemental type race when using certian abilities/skills would benefit one attribute and lessen another.

Fire: increases dps, but lowers hitpoints

Earth: adds defense but lowers dex

Air: adds speed to attacks, lowers AC

Water: adds faster regen, vunerable to magic attacks

Each ability gives your character an Fx aura.

Or depending on what class you choose.

[melanieshaman]

I'd like to see them be a sort of "hybrid" nature race...meaning yes they venerate the wild, and such... but i'd like to see them build into, up in the trees. I don't wanna see frilly green leafy armor, and wood weapons. I wanna see a race with an affinity for the wild, but an affinity for hardened armor, weapons and such. Maybe even stone/wood/tree fortifications. and..DANG...had something else to expand this idea but it suddenly got lound around here and i lost my train of thought...shoot.. i'll edit in my idea if it comes back to me... going for a mani/pedi in a bit so maybe i can think and remember then.

[Therian]

an elf that shapeshifts...

1)natural form for normal interactions & non-agressive actions (buffing/healing/etc)

2)shapeshifted form for attacking.. wolve, snake, bear, eagle, lion, tree, rock(golem?), etc.

perhaps a quest to choose which form you want?
perhaps the form is determined by the class?


oh yeah... my wife says... "elf's dont use guns, it's just not natural"

she also says... " I want a playable fairy race, that would be so awesome"

[Lakeeta]

I guess I am hoping the Sylvain are an elf-like race. Graceful, cunning, tall, wiry, and beautiful. I, personally, wouldn't want them "tree-like" or "ape-like". Slightly larger, pointed ears and maybe slanted eyes to give them an exotic look. Softer features and tinted skin tones, unlike any other class, is what I have in my minds' vision.
Shape shifting (in at least one class) would be awesome. Being able to blend into their surroundings or "fade" into the shadows would be another trait I would like to see.

Maybe my ideas are a little cliche from reading way too many fantasy novels, but to me the first four letters (SYlV) are synonomous with elves. And I love elves :smile:

[Hamarhand]

I'd like to see them be a sort of "hybrid" nature race...meaning yes they venerate the wild, and such... but i'd like to see them build into, up in the trees. I don't wanna see frilly green leafy armor, and wood weapons. I wanna see a race with an affinity for the wild, but an affinity for hardened armor, weapons and such. Maybe even stone/wood/tree fortifications. and..DANG...had something else to expand this idea but it suddenly got lound around here and i lost my train of thought...shoot.. i'll edit in my idea if it comes back to me... going for a mani/pedi in a bit so maybe i can think and remember then.

No wood weapons or leafy armor? Well, there's wood, and then there's wood... We're talking magical realms here. With the natural attunement, why not have their weapons appear "grown" and shaped rather than smithed or crafted? I remember watching something recently that noted that some Aztec or Mayan obsidian weapons could cut off a horse's head; can you imagine if nature was helping you make the weapon? And if the weapon is grown, it would look organic; there are all sorts of examples in nature, both "modern" and prehistoric from which to draw inspiration (whether the weapon is piercing, slashing, or crushing...) The result could be look both elegant and lethal; potentially the most beautiful weapons in the game.

As for physical attributes, well they're tall, and I envision a moderate build -- neither bulky or sticklike -- nature can create a lot of strength with something small, but these are protectors. Also, why tie the sylvain to a specific area of nature? During character creation, could skin textures be allowed, and not just colors, for example (so an appearance of fur, scales, bark, etc.) or face shapes and/or features that imply different parts of nature. In short, if you look at a group of Sylvain, it would be like looking at all parts of nature, not just one kingdom.

Finally, I see no reason to limit professions. There are parts of nature that are massively strong (like a soldier) and/or can carve vast swaths of destruction (like a magus); healers and rangers are natural fits; and so on. Perhaps simply have some spells/abilities which one race has and another doesn't (WoW does a bit of this) to better reflect the nature of that race. We are told that the heroic elements of Alganon were born to their callings, so in the case of the Sylvain, a given class reflects a particular type of natural force very strongly.

Wow, I've got myself wanting to play a Sylvain now...