15 replies to this topic

[Padreic]

As of today's patch we have introduced out first phase of PvP content into the game: duels and open world PvP. The details on the next phases of PvP can be found in our November newsletter here!

Please feel free to post your opinions and comments on the Phase 1 PvP content here!

[beloit551]

im not a pvper sadly but all i ask is you dont do pve nerfs due to pvp balance. That is all thanks

[BestAwesome]

its quiet.... a little TOO quiet

[Sativa]

its quiet.... a little TOO quiet

Hehehe perhaps because the current playerbase of Alganon do not want PVP

It is funny really though, I highly doubt Alganon can pull in a PVP playerbase and expect them to pay to play etc, not given the market and standard of competition that Alganon has to contend with.

Alganon had a great potential but it has chosen the wrong path now. And yes of course I will be mocked for this post. Just remember it later on though.

No games dev company hears the words and advice of its players, regardless of thier game experiances or vocation experiances or even their life experiances. For the games developer always knows better. Always!

[Chibber]

Not being a great fan of pvp I also hope any nerfs etc wont affect pve.but sadly like many games i get a feeling it will.

[Padreic]

No games dev company hears the words and advice of its players, regardless of thier game experiances or vocation experiances or even their life experiances.

That's an interesting take on things, and couldn't be further from the truth. We take player feedback and opinions very seriously, whether we agree with what we hear or not. That hasn't changed from before, and it won't be changing in the future.

We are working hard to keep Alganon steady and stable with both PvP and PvE, whether there's bleeding between them or not. PvE gameplay should always stand on its own without limitations imposed by PvP, and we're working hard toward that goal. We're still very much against forcing people to play PvP that don't want to and we're growing around that concept to keep the same fun gaming experience despite which path you decide to go down.

[Whyspir]

That's an interesting take on things, and couldn't be further from the truth. We take player feedback and opinions very seriously, whether we agree with what we hear or not. That hasn't changed from before, and it won't be changing in the future.

We are working hard to keep Alganon steady and stable with both PvP and PvE, whether there's bleeding between them or not. PvE gameplay should always stand on its own without limitations imposed by PvP, and we're working hard toward that goal. We're still very much against forcing people to play PvP that don't want to and we're growing around that concept to keep the same fun gaming experience despite which path you decide to go down.

Speaking of paths..I think I went down the wrong one,
And need help raking the leaves to keep the paths clear.
no one helps anymore and there are tooo many leaves for me to continue raking alone.

[BestAwesome]

Just got to wait for PvP Phase 2.... maybe that will garner a few people... maybe.

[SWGHealShot]

I think once Phase 2 is in effect the old days of Daoc might come back.

Especially if they keep things fair and balanced for both sides.

I see nothing but good things on the horizon for Alganon.

[BestAwesome]

You know PvP isn't something I care much about. Besides with the bad lag in this game I don't think I will try it any more because when you have lag PvP is just not fun (or just really erratic).

I probably will play the PvP instance QOL is promising... because I have absolutely nothing else to do.

Edited by BestAwesome, 29 November 2010 - 03:17 AM.

[SWGHealShot]

To be honest, I don't have the lag some people claim to have in this game.

Might, I recommend you take a little look at my guide.

Here is the link: http://www.alganon.c...etter-gameplay/

[Anzha]

its quiet.... a little TOO quiet

From what I've seen chatting with people here, PvP is not something that most of us are bothered about. (I.E., people who are already playing Alganon). Why? Because the game hasn't had PvP at all thus far, yet we are all still playing it, so therefore its likely that this isn't a 'must have' or 'priority' for existing players. It is a good draw for potential players out there who refuse to play something that doesn't have PvP in it, but from my experience (which is considerable) in MMOland, it often coincides that the people who wont give a game a chance without PvP are the kind who don't want limited PvP - they want the ability to gank, grief, and be otherwise troublesome forcing PvP on uninterested parties - which it has been stated will not be the case here (for which I and others are very grateful).

That being said, I do expect to see more interest in Phase 2, where objectives and such will be added, but I share the above concerns that it will affect PvE class balance; Currently with Spirit Drain implemented for instance balancing we have a severe class imbalance. I'm keeping an eye out to see what adjustments, if any, are made to this since a heavy-armor-wearing-champion can wipe the floor with any other class, DPS-wise, while having the best armor and HP. With the long cooldowns (and focus problems) of mages/rangers the ability to snare, stun, heal, etc. I don't believe is enough. On a healer-type assuming you can survive, it becomes a 'run around healing yourself' type situation. Perfectly fine if you've got 50 people fighting over an outpost or keep but kind of pointless in a 1v1 battle.

I guess we will see what else is in store for us soonish.

[RipperMcGee]

Please note - I'm not against PvP. I like it and I think the phases in which it's being implemented in Alganon sound interesting and seem logical. Also, I'm not "anti-Alganon".

My concerns regarding PvP relate to the "pay-to-win" factor. When a player can significantly boost his/her gear stats with a single purchase and can further boost stats (either permanently or temporarily) with other purchases of items like Talismans and epic gear, how is that fair? It's not even a matter of subscriber vs. non-subscriber. A player who's purchased the Super Pack (the closest equivalent to a subscriber in Alganon's current revenue model) might still be at a major disadvantage against somebody who's purchased a full gear set.

The specific comparison I did was for my level 30 ranger, for whom all gear was acquired via looting, questing, crafting or from the auction house (on the occasions that there were actually items listed, much less usable to my character) vs. the same pieces from the Level 30 Ranger Full Gear Set:



In this spreadsheet, I've highlighted a row that compares the stat bonuses from the same pieces. The biggest increase is 54 points to Endurance, which equates to 540 extra HP. Considering my ranger has <1k HP, that's a huge bump and can absolutely influence the outcome of a dual. On top of that, my protection would go up by 69 and my net Attack power would go up significantly due to a +37 increase in Agility and +52 increase in explicit attack power, even though I lost 21 Strength (+42 AP). My ranger, as he is today, would have a significant disadvantage against the same character with the full gear set... Yes, obviously skill counts for something in PvP, but would it be enough given such large disparities in gear stats between paying/non-paying players?

Per the August 10th "Alganon Goes Free-To-Play" announcement, "Our robust Tribute Market micro-transaction system ... provides an even playing field for all our gamers, regardless of how much money they spend." That may have been true when the game was 100% non-competitive PvE, but does that statement still hold true in a competitive PvP environment? Based on the comparison above, I don't think so.

Please note, my concerns would be allayed if I was able to acquire--in-game--gear that was comparable to the Level 30 Ranger Full Gear set listed above. I never saw any opportunity to do so, however, while playing this character.

[BestAwesome]

I think we can have something else instead of ganks. Maybe there is a zombie raid attacking a region where people are leveling and then the grinders ask for help for any bored players that don't know what else to do to take care of the zombie horde. Maybe some vikings raid a village and are attacking the NPCs, I don't know this does sound kind of like PvP....

That might bring the community together. I sure as hell would like to go and fight off some kind of attack on a city once in a while instead of hopping around on my horse attacking random enemies that mean me no harm.

I'd hate to admit I like PvP...
Maybe I have a closet condition

Edited by BestAwesome, 01 December 2010 - 05:30 AM.

[Nightvision]

I'll get right to the point. We're trying to attract players who won't play a game with no PvP element, because there are millions of them out there.

At the same time, we're creating a system that is going to be fun, engaging, and will provide a fair amount of new content and things for people to do at all levels. It's going to be difficult for players to resist the temptation to join in the fray, because it's going to be going on all around you.

You may not like PvP for whatever reason, that's OK too. You'll still get a buff when your faction controls the zone you're in. You'll still have access to all the PvE content in the game, and you never have to flag yourself for PvP. Ever.

*A note about balance changes
I get it. There is nothing that frustrates me more than when developers change perfectly good PvE mechanics because they break PvP balance. In the past I've played games that do just that, and on a regular basis. On the other hand as a developer I've also learned that players will see changes in whatever context they are looking for. Whenever I make a balance change from the current patch forward some players are bound to say "PvP nerf affecting PvE" just because there is now PvP in the game.

The fact of the matter is that we will continue to make PvE balance changes as we've done all throughout the last year. We'll also make PvP changes. Most the time when we make a PvP balance change it won't affect PvE, we can tell the difference in code. Here is the part that's hard for player's to understand... sometimes when you make a PvP balance change it actually makes sense to make the same change for PvE.

Let me give some poignant examples from the upcoming patch:

We've made a change to the way stuns work in PvP. When a player is stunned the first time it lasts the full time indicated on the spell. However, the second and subsequent stuns reduce the duration by 50% for each application. For example if a Magus chain casts Paralyze on a player it would work like this: 1st cast - 10s, 2nd cast - 5s, 3rd - 2.5s, 4th - 1.25, 5th - .0625, and on the 6th cast the player is immune.

Diminishing Returns does not effect monsters in any way. Magi are free to chain cast away to CC a MOB, and each cast will grant a full 10 second duration.

We've also made a change to the way Champion/Reaver Shock and Awe works. S&A now affects up to 6 enemies, and reduces the duration of the stun by 1 second for each enemy. For example, if a Reaver with S&A + 4/4 Lasting Shock uses S&A on a single enemy, the duration is 10 seconds. Against 2 enemies it lasts 9 seconds, 3 - 8s, 4 - 7s, 5 - 6s and against 6 it lasts 5 seconds.

This change made sense for both PvP and PvE situations and so it will be carried in both systems. We could have excluded it from one or the other if it made sense to do so, but many Champion/Reavers will nonetheless label this a PvP nerf.

I have a lot more to say on the subject of PvP. I'll try to get a blog or something put together in the next few days so I can put an end to some of the speculation and add fuel to wild new avenues of speculation.

But in closing let me say this, we're working hard on this PvP integration. It's not going to be a bolted on afterthought whatsoever, it's going to be fully integrated into every major game system we have. It's my great hope that the current player base will be just as enthusiastic about what is coming as I am. You've only heard a tiny fraction of what is coming, and in the next few days and weeks much more will be revealed.

[BestAwesome]

I'll get right to the point. We're trying to attract players who won't play a game with no PvP element, because there are millions of them out there.

At the same time, we're creating a system that is going to be fun, engaging, and will provide a fair amount of new content and things for people to do at all levels. It's going to be difficult for players to resist the temptation to join in the fray, because it's going to be going on all around you.

You may not like PvP for whatever reason, that's OK too. You'll still get a buff when your faction controls the zone you're in. You'll still have access to all the PvE content in the game, and you never have to flag yourself for PvP. Ever.

*A note about balance changes
I get it. There is nothing that frustrates me more than when developers change perfectly good PvE mechanics because they break PvP balance. In the past I've played games that do just that, and on a regular basis. On the other hand as a developer I've also learned that players will see changes in whatever context they are looking for. Whenever I make a balance change from the current patch forward some players are bound to say "PvP nerf affecting PvE" just because there is now PvP in the game.

The fact of the matter is that we will continue to make PvE balance changes as we've done all throughout the last year. We'll also make PvP changes. Most the time when we make a PvP balance change it won't affect PvE, we can tell the difference in code. Here is the part that's hard for player's to understand... sometimes when you make a PvP balance change it actually makes sense to make the same change for PvE.

Let me give some poignant examples from the upcoming patch:

We've made a change to the way stuns work in PvP. When a player is stunned the first time it lasts the full time indicated on the spell. However, the second and subsequent stuns reduce the duration by 50% for each application. For example if a Magus chain casts Paralyze on a player it would work like this: 1st cast - 10s, 2nd cast - 5s, 3rd - 2.5s, 4th - 1.25, 5th - .0625, and on the 6th cast the player is immune.

Diminishing Returns does not effect monsters in any way. Magi are free to chain cast away to CC a MOB, and each cast will grant a full 10 second duration.

We've also made a change to the way Champion/Reaver Shock and Awe works. S&A now affects up to 6 enemies, and reduces the duration of the stun by 1 second for each enemy. For example, if a Reaver with S&A + 4/4 Lasting Shock uses S&A on a single enemy, the duration is 10 seconds. Against 2 enemies it lasts 9 seconds, 3 - 8s, 4 - 7s, 5 - 6s and against 6 it lasts 5 seconds.

This change made sense for both PvP and PvE situations and so it will be carried in both systems. We could have excluded it from one or the other if it made sense to do so, but many Champion/Reavers will nonetheless label this a PvP nerf.

I have a lot more to say on the subject of PvP. I'll try to get a blog or something put together in the next few days so I can put an end to some of the speculation and add fuel to wild new avenues of speculation.

But in closing let me say this, we're working hard on this PvP integration. It's not going to be a bolted on afterthought whatsoever, it's going to be fully integrated into every major game system we have. It's my great hope that the current player base will be just as enthusiastic about what is coming as I am. You've only heard a tiny fraction of what is coming, and in the next few days and weeks much more will be revealed.

Ahhh... I know you mean well but those changes you just mention... I hate to say this but... now the PvP/PvE balancing begins...