37 replies to this topic

[Requnix]

With the first public beta weekend, I am curious what gamers throught of Warhammer Online. What did you like, what didn't you like, and what would you change?

[Syndic]

Oh this could take a while

Firstly I feel there is something missing I'm not sure what it is, this could a personal thing and not something others share. It is really hard to put a grasp on it.

I know alot of the decisions that were made are based around the idea that RvR is the core of the game, actually other than alot of solo questing it seems to be the only point of the game. Don't get me wrong I love solo questing and I do as much of it as I possibly can, but so far the only interaction I have with other people is through public quests (get into that later) or RvR. The fact that these are the only areas where you seem to need other people around when you do get into these "groups" your not prepared or used to interacting in a group environment. I'm sure after several hours of playing RvR you'll know your part and what to do, but are the other people in your party. My experiences in RvR and public quests so far have not been encouraging to each side working as a unit to complete objectives, it's every man/woman for themselves and major chaos inbetween all of them.

Maybe this is how it always is, this is my first time around RvR/PvP for any decent amount of time.

Public Quests are a brilliant idea and although it is infuriating to come first on the list only to end up 11th after the roll, it is better than no bonus at all. My problem with Public Quests is that people don't group up and work together to complete the quest, everyone seems to be off in their own directions trying to score as high up the list as they can. The concept is good, getting players working to a common goal. Things that I think would improve them
- Scale the quests so the more/less people that are there the more/less needs doing etc. In closed beta went into these were the first few had a decent number but the chapter 3 ones were empty. On the public weekend the exact opposite was true in they were so crowded I was surprised I even got to contribute.
- All the quests just reset after 2 mins, not really leading to a dynamic changing world. The Static nature of these quests really drove it home how much this world is not going to change. Having a public quest that leads into another different public quest that drives the story forward. Nothing wrong with a few that repeat but some epic ones would nice too.
- I really didn't get the feeling I was working with others to complete a goal but competing against them to get higher on the loot table and get that reward at the end. You could say give everyone a reward but if they scale people would still compete for the greater reward. Not sure on a solution for this but maybe it's just me.
I guess this is a new concept (in the adventure sense) for MMO's so might take a bit of trial and time before it really flourishes into something great.

One of the greatest ideas was public groups, the feeling I got was many people didn't read the manual because this idea seemed to still stump people. So with time I just hopes this gets better as people realise this function is out there and they take advantage of it. With Warhammers focus on RvR and Public Quests I feel this feature was a must, now it's a case of players learning to work together with strangers to complete the goals set before them.

Overall the game seemed refined but not as complete as I would have thought this close to release. Only 1 tradeskill class, with indication there is at least 1 other to come, with less than a month to go to not include this other class makes for a glaring hole. A few graphical glitches here and there with objects not loading but the game has not crashed out on me once.

Tome of Knowledge is absolutely brilliant although way too much in there for me to read much of it, although sometimes a little difficult to navigate, but it would just take time to learn which links go where etc. I would prefer the quest journal to be seperate becuase it seemed a bit wieldy to navigate just to go through my quests. I would almost say the Tome could be an overload of information, so much so that do I really want to log in one day and just sit there for hours reading it?

RvR; Not being a big PvP person I wish I could avoid this part of the game but it seems this is the game. My few attempts to join did not fill me with thrill and joy or even raised a little bit of excitement (like when playing Team Fortess 2). Personally I found what I always expected from PvP in an MMO, the player I come up against has a higher level, better gear, more abilities and all around smacked me down without a thought. This is even with the minimum level buffing they give you. Eg the first scenario boosts you to level 8 if you are under that level. It only boosts HP's though and doesn't give you any new abilities so even a level 4 coming up against a level 7 who have both been boosted to level 8 seems to result in the level 7 winning, just purely due to better armour and more abilities available. Not to mention when you come across a level 11, who doesn't get lowered to level 8 as far as I'm aware. The fact that the play field is barely ever level I think I'll stick to Team Fortess 2 when it comes to wanting to kill other players.

Ability Queueing; I would just quickly like to add that ability queueing just seems to be my #1 thing with games atm. What's wrong with choosing my next ability early? Do I really want to be spammed with "That ability is not ready" dozens of times in a row? I've found that not having queueing just leads to me staring at my hotbars waiting for that indicator to tell me I press a button rather than looking at the screen and the combat that ensues. I'm sure alot of players would prefer to look up on occasion. I seen an option that hinted at queueing but it doesn't seem to work....... yet.

Will I be playing War when it comes out? I'm not sure but currently leaning towards no, there doesn't seem to be anything to draw me to the game, it's that something missing thing again popping it's head up.

In summary, I may have pointed out things negatively but thats because everything else it does it does the same as other games. It certainly added a thing or 2 to the MMO genre, I think the greatest of these is public groups. I don't think it is enough to draw me away from my current lineup of games though. Maybe I've just been in this game so long that a game that will drum up those feelings of excitement has gone.

[Syndic]

Oh and Dungeons. Where are they? at first I thought there was none to exist leaving PvP to be the only group interaction. Recently was told by a friend there will be dungeons but they start at level 23. My response to that is ?????? Why would wait until a player is over 1/2 way to max level before introducing something as basic to an MMO as a dungeon? Yet introduce RvR at level 3, I would almost think those 2 roles should be reversed.

[Convo]

I actually found WaR to be fun as hell. My first 10 levels in this game were what I expected. An introduction to the game and it's many features. I actually think it did a great job showing off some of the core features in the first 3 ranks.

Public Quests: New games should just steal this idea. They are fun and I have to disagree with Syndic a bit here with the grouping and the timers. They felt fine to me. I enjoyed working my way through an area only to stumble on a PQ. I would wait till a new one started and join up then move on or run it one more time. You also can get rewards from an NPC based off your influence from doing them. I was always grouping up with people. There is also a function that people can hop in your group. Not to say you were not proactive with grouping but maybe I just had better luck.

RvR: It was what I expected at such a low level. Again, an introduction to WaR pvp. I personally never felt *owned* in it. WaR did a good job with fast combat but making the killing slower. I actually killed a good amount of players that had a few levels on me. I always had 35-40 kills. It's not your typical pvp where you get 1 shotted or get CC 5 times and just die before you get a single attack off. Not to single you out Syndic but since you're the only person that replied to this thread did you really feel like you didn't have a fighting chance? From everything I have read the RvR only continues to get better at later levels and I am looking forward to trying it out.

UI: Imo The UI is perfect in this game. Pretty much a WoW ripoff. I really have no complaints. Coming from AoC it's refreshing to have all these options.

Tome of Knowledge: I agree 100% with Syndic

Tradeskills: I know so little about them but they can't be worse than AoC.


Overall, I like WaR and I was very anti WaR up until I tried it. Keep in mind I came from AoC heh. I honestly think WaR is just a much more polished game than AoC. I think WaR will be much more enjoyable playing with others. The game pretty much functions on grouping of some sort. I don't see your typical loner lasting long in WaR. Imo RvR is most fun in a group with a bunch of guildies. I have yet to try the higher level stuff but have heard very good things. I still seems rather easy to level up tho. I am just tired of how easy leveling has become in games tho.

Btw Syndic, I noticed a few zones blocked off in the tier 1 areas. I just assumed they were low level groups zones. WaR also has hidden zones in every zone. One last thing, my friend in beta said he was in a tier 2 group zone at lvl 12. I am almost positive groups zones exist in every tier just no idea how many per.


Just a fast vent on AoC and current mmo's since i know DA is reading this thread. I am assuming you're watching the common trend with players? Fast leveling with no end game= dead servers! I am starting to think it's better having a ton of high level content and less low level stuff if you make a fast leveling game. I can only speak for myself and some of my fellow guild mates but we miss the EQish type game. I know we are the minority but the insta gratification in games is getting old. I want a real death penalty! I miss the days of looking at a group of mobs and going how are we gonna pull this mess w/o dieing? I want real tactics. I don't mind knowing I might now be able to do a zone without a certain class. What ever happen to classes getting fun CC/pulling abilities? Where are the pure healers at? I mean I am all for having some hybrid healing classes to step in but imo 2 hybrid should = 1 pure healer in a group. I think these gaming dynamics do so much to build a community. Slowing the players down with meaningful content is a good thing. What is so bad about a game that will take 3-6 months to level in? Why does every player have to be equal in these games? Do we really need more games that can be soloed in 2 weeks? I may still be in the minority but I am slowly seeing a lot of people wanting more from this Industry. There are plenty of games out there to suit the casual gamers needs. Lets get back to the hard games w/o the manotinous tasks. Can't even craft bags anymore in games=(

[Convo]

Also I forgot to add and again just my opinion but I was one of the people who thought WaR =WoW 2.0 but I lost that feeling about 15 mins into playing. By no means in WaR gonna be the best game ever but I do see it holding players interest for a while. I will try to add more of what I don't like later. Getting late.

[Syndic]

Yeah I had to stop writing after a while it was getting a bit long, and would be a poor game if it could be summed up in one post.

Public Quests: New games should just steal this idea. They are fun and I have to disagree with Syndic a bit here with the grouping and the timers. They felt fine to me. I enjoyed working my way through an area only to stumble on a PQ. I would wait till a new one started and join up then move on or run it one more time. You also can get rewards from an NPC based off your influence from doing them. I was always grouping up with people. There is also a function that people can hop in your group. Not to say you were not proactive with grouping but maybe I just had better luck.

Well coming from Closed Beta where there was a fresh wave of players, myself included, but alot of players had been around a while and moved on I found that the first chapter was well stocked with players, but second chapter I found 1 PQ was filled with players (generally the closest to the quest camp) but the other 2-3 quests were empty except for the few of us explorers, but made it hard to complete them, due to lack of numbers. On the Open Weekend we just had the flood of players due to character wipe meant the first couple of chapters were actually over populated, I don't think the PQ's can handle 30+ people doing them.
Public groups as I said are a brilliant idea just not used enough by players I thought. I'd walk into PQ areas or RvR areas and lucky to find one open, so I would start my own with maybe 1 or 2 people joining me in 2-3 minutes period. Again with the open weekend this changed with alot more experienced players in the lower areas. It is a great addition to games, I just think those that don't read the manual need to learn that it's out there for them to use and I'm sure they will. It does sort of impress upon me though how many out there don't read the material supplied.
I found the beginning of the game not very helpful at all. They didn't explain any of the new UI elements to you in anything other than a tooltip which was very brief in it's description. I guess this is all fine and dandy for someone who has played other MMO's but you're not going to pull in new players with the "tutorial" they have (well that was my thoughts anyway). I did like how it didn't take long to find a PQ, or get into a scenario, or even experience RvR, but I wonder how far in the deep water they threw alot of players.

Another function I found severely lacking in the game was voice chat. Especially in a game which wants players to work together. I'm sure the battles would/could be more monumental with some coordination. I'm surprised that this feature still seems to get left out of games.

Also Convo as I said I am pretty much an anti-PvP player. My experiences in PvP are usually very poor, which helps reinforce this view. I'm not sure what it is but I just don't feel excited playing PvP in a RPG environment. If I want excitement and thrill I go play an FPS. MMO's have always just lead to griefing incident after griefing incident when it comes to PvP. So as of now I have yet to find an MMO I want to even contemplate going up against other players in, it seems to bring out the worst in them rather than their best. Discussing the ups and downs of PvP though I guess is best for another thread. I will give RvR a decent shot later this week and will see how things go then.

[Syndic]

As to dungeons, I explored the beginning areas quite rigorously and didn't notice any blocked off areas or anything to indicate a dungeon (other than the crypts and spider caves which were solo). If they are hiding things like where group zones are I don't think that is a wise move, they should be encouraging you to try them out like they seem to be doing with all the RvR content. I mean they drill that into you so badly it almost feels like they are force feeding it to you.

[Vanpry]

I have very little interest in War. Was in the beta and it just didn't do it for me. Not enough depth besides hacking and slashing. MMO have become to much like console rpg going from A to Z hacking and slashing your way across the world. No stopping to explore, no depth to crafting, no real non combat skills, no settling down and maybe setting up a shop, no real goal beside omfg I must kill. ZZZZZ

Plus it is a very pvp centric game. I like some pvp but I think it shoves it in your face a bit more then I like.

This is what really put games (that I have played) like UO, Horizons, LOTRO and Ryzom above the rest. These games gave me a sense of being part of the world.

[Convo]

Like I said insta gratification in games. Although I enjoy WaR and it's PvP. I think Vangaurd had the vision just failed to deliver. Darkfall also offers a lot of potential but who knows if that game will ever release. Hero's Journey is another interesting game to follow.

I hope Alganon offers a huge world were players are free to explore. Games seem to be getting smaller. I don't know much about game development but is it the code that makes designers move away from some of the more interesting features in a game? It just seems like things have taking a complete 360 since the days of EQ and UO yet players always talk about how fond their memories of those games are.

WTB beta in this game!

[Syndic]

I have very little interest in War. Was in the beta and it just didn't do it for me. Not enough depth besides hacking and slashing. MMO have become to much like console rpg going from A to Z hacking and slashing your way across the world. No stopping to explore, no depth to crafting, no real non combat skills, no settling down and maybe setting up a shop, no real goal beside omfg I must kill. ZZZZZ

Plus it is a very pvp centric game. I like some pvp but I think it shoves it in your face a bit more then I like.

This is what really put games (that I have played) like UO, Horizons, LOTRO and Ryzom above the rest. These games gave me a sense of being part of the world.

QFE I think this summed me up in a lot fewer words.

[Convo]

Sounds to me, the lack of fun you guys are having is b/c you are not big on PvP. Like I said WaR will be a good game but not this unstoppable force. It has some very good features and IMO is the most polished beta I have ever played. I also disagree with the hack and slash opinion. By no means is WaR combat revolutionary but it's not hack and slash either. If you avoided PvP I can see where this opinion would come from since PvE is not as challenging as some games. There are plenty of things to do in the game tho. Just too bad a bigger part of the game is something you enjoy the least (pvP). WaR actually does a great job with the fun factor early on. I have not messed with the tradeskills but from what I can tell Mythic is trying to make them fun. Sounds to me like you guys are just PvE at heart. I am too but I enjoy what WaR is trying to do and see the game for what it is and has always been promoted as. A pvp game with some pve tossed into it.

[Ripperric]

I'v heard alot of people that have manage to get into the game about the RvR and how it seems you end up fighting all the time but if people understood the Lore of Warhammer people will start realsing that the game should be focused on the long slog between order and distruciton. I love some of the public quests that are just inside RvR areas which spice things up a little. Me and my group i was doing the quest with, were walking to our next objective where we were ambushed by a bunch of dwarfs played by other people. we ended up being beaten back and calling for more help to try and take control of the area. The Tomb of knowledge was abit much to read with and 9/10 times iv just clicked it off when it poped up, I thought having the Dungons at higher levels is a good idea as it will give people a reason to level up to expericence another part of the game, the Cities are amazing to walk up to and walk through even tho the graphics are very much like WoW but that not really a bad thing. The smaller size of the maps is a better move coz one thing that bored me the most wass walking forever to get to where you want to, personnaly i think they have done an amazing job mixing good ideas from old mmos (AoC RvR style game) and new ideas (like the public quests) will make for a good game that will help fill the void that been open for some time

[Zianix]

With the first public beta weekend, I am curious what gamers throught of Warhammer Online. What did you like, what didn't you like, and what would you change?

I play Highelf White Lion on the EU (eng) Karak-Azgal server... named Oli, rank 9. If you wanna play some
So far I must say Warhammer is awsome. No question about it. And it's crowded like hell which is great.

[Chyra]

Husband and I were in open beta, and while I didn't enjoy it much he wanted to continue so we picked up a couple boxes. But after a couple weeks, he's lost interest as well.

I think if you enjoy pvp and are in a guild, it's definitely more enjoyable. For me I felt confined. Zones are a bit small and packed full of aggressive mobs, so the explorer in me felt a bit claustrophobic. I think there are some nice concepts and it's a well made game. It's just not my gaming style.

[Vanpry]

Sounds to me, the lack of fun you guys are having is b/c you are not big on PvP. Like I said WaR will be a good game but not this unstoppable force. It has some very good features and IMO is the most polished beta I have ever played. I also disagree with the hack and slash opinion. By no means is WaR combat revolutionary but it's not hack and slash either. If you avoided PvP I can see where this opinion would come from since PvE is not as challenging as some games. There are plenty of things to do in the game tho. Just too bad a bigger part of the game is something you enjoy the least (pvP). WaR actually does a great job with the fun factor early on. I have not messed with the tradeskills but from what I can tell Mythic is trying to make them fun. Sounds to me like you guys are just PvE at heart. I am too but I enjoy what WaR is trying to do and see the game for what it is and has always been promoted as. A pvp game with some pve tossed into it.

Like what? Crafting sounded different but nothing to write home about. Besides crafting what else is there to do besides kill mobs or players?

This is not ment as a insult to War it is what it is. A very combat oriented game with very little depth beyond that.

I am looking for something with more depth beyond kill, kill, kill.

[Convo]

Like what? Crafting sounded different but nothing to write home about. Besides crafting what else is there to do besides kill mobs or players?

This is not ment as a insult to War it is what it is. A very combat oriented game with very little depth beyond that.

I am looking for something with more depth beyond kill, kill, kill.

Have you played WaR? If so what level did you get to?

[Vanpry]

Have you played WaR? If so what level did you get to?

Beta a little, that is why I'm asking you. What else does war offer besides killing? There is crafting, which didn't sound that inspiring, and ......

[Convo]

That's the point. The RvR has hooked a lot of people to the point they don't care so much about the other aspects of the game. I am currently playing with 5 people who I thought would not be joining me in WaR b/c they are more of the RP/PvE type. After our first keep raid they all told me it "hooked" them.

To me the PvE is not too bad. I ran Mount Gunbadd the other day with my guild and had a blast. It's basically a pve group/raid zone with PQ's that get harder the further you travel into the zone. I think it scales from lvl 22-34? For me, the RvR, PvE questing, tradeskilling and PQ chapters are plenty to keep me busy. Do I think WaR is some unstoppable force? No, I never said. I actually think it's missing something. I just can't put my finger on it. The game appears to be fun for the majority of MMO players tho. If there was ever a game that I would not mind seeing succeed it would be this. Not because it's PvP based but b/c it was released at a state that I think most MMO players found very acceptable and would like to see set as the new standard.

[Vanpry]

So my hack and slash point is valid. It was never meant as a insult to War cause lets face facts most mmos are all about hacking and slashing. Thus why I have little interest in War, well honestly in most mmos.

[Convo]

I think all MMO's are hack and slash to some extent. What would you offer as a solution? The early phases of VG sounded original but that system never worked out for them..