I just came across this from a post on another board. I haven't played WoW in about a year, and when I saw this, I thought it was a graphical touch up for WoW...
Do you realize how the UI looks EXACTLY like WoW's?
Even the font looks similar.
Explain?
World of Alganon?
Started by EtherBoo, Jun 14 2008 09:27 PM
25 replies to this topic
#3
EtherBoo
-
- Members
-
- 4 posts
Newbie
Posted 15 June 2008 - 12:51 AM
The topic seems to be about names, not the actual game, (however the names are VERY similar).
My curiosity is about the game itself.
The portrait with the life bar and mana bar (or in this case, what appears to be Rage for a Warrior, just like in WoW). In fact, the clothes Swank is wearing in the screen shots are almost exactly like the starting clothes of a Warrior in WoW.
After reading that other thread, I'm beginning to think this game is a joke. In fact, these boards aren't even custom, they're just a free distro that anyone with a MySQL database can install.
More than anything, this seems like a giant Hoax and someone's attempt at fooling us with his photoshop abilities.
10/10.
I'll believe it when I see video. If this IS in fact real, Blizzard's lawyers are going have a 40-Man raid and get some ph4t l3wtz.
My apologies for botching the title, I wasn't paying attention when I typed workd instead of world.
My curiosity is about the game itself.
The portrait with the life bar and mana bar (or in this case, what appears to be Rage for a Warrior, just like in WoW). In fact, the clothes Swank is wearing in the screen shots are almost exactly like the starting clothes of a Warrior in WoW.
After reading that other thread, I'm beginning to think this game is a joke. In fact, these boards aren't even custom, they're just a free distro that anyone with a MySQL database can install.
More than anything, this seems like a giant Hoax and someone's attempt at fooling us with his photoshop abilities.
10/10.
I'll believe it when I see video. If this IS in fact real, Blizzard's lawyers are going have a 40-Man raid and get some ph4t l3wtz.
My apologies for botching the title, I wasn't paying attention when I typed workd instead of world.
#5
EtherBoo
-
- Members
-
- 4 posts
Newbie
Posted 15 June 2008 - 02:42 AM
Hardly a troll, I was simply coming here to find out why this game looks so similar, yet you have done nothing but dance around issues in the other thread and claim they are the same as in other games.
As far as I know, and I could be wrong because I did not extensively play EQ, FFXI, or any of the other MMOs before WoW came out (I played EQ for about a day, got bored and gave my account to a friend), but I'm fairly certain WoW was the first MMO to introduce Rage and Energy bars. Now, based on other similarities, the Swank screenshots appear to of a Human Warrior, with a rage bar. The fact that the layout, from portrait, character name, level, all are in the same exact spots, looks fishy. The fact that he is wearing the same clothes as a WoW Warrior... it just doesn't add up.
Then you guys, are here defending it as if they are just coincidences. It doesn't add up. Cite some sources that show Asheroth was around before Azeroth. Show me where I can see some Lore. Explain to me why these boards are free php boards that anybody can install on their website as long as they have SQL capabilities.
As it is, this just appears to be a very well played out hoax. I applaud you for that at the very least.
As far as I know, and I could be wrong because I did not extensively play EQ, FFXI, or any of the other MMOs before WoW came out (I played EQ for about a day, got bored and gave my account to a friend), but I'm fairly certain WoW was the first MMO to introduce Rage and Energy bars. Now, based on other similarities, the Swank screenshots appear to of a Human Warrior, with a rage bar. The fact that the layout, from portrait, character name, level, all are in the same exact spots, looks fishy. The fact that he is wearing the same clothes as a WoW Warrior... it just doesn't add up.
Then you guys, are here defending it as if they are just coincidences. It doesn't add up. Cite some sources that show Asheroth was around before Azeroth. Show me where I can see some Lore. Explain to me why these boards are free php boards that anybody can install on their website as long as they have SQL capabilities.
As it is, this just appears to be a very well played out hoax. I applaud you for that at the very least.
#6
Hyuu
-
- QOL Staff
-
- 174 posts
QOL Developer
- LocationArizona
Posted 15 June 2008 - 08:24 AM
At the risk of feeding the trolls (you may not be one, but there are plenty who will take advantage of having a dev response), I'll reply.
I can assure you, it's not a hoax. The paycheck I get every month is all the proof I need. I have no idea if we'll be releasing video any time soon, but if that is the only thing that will satisfy you, then there is no reason for me to write any more on that topic.
As far as the similarities to other games, my response is this: The ONLY rule that guides my design is "Is it fun?" Nothing else matters.
For example:
Would moving the mini-map to another portion of the screen make the game more fun? Nope.
Then we're going to put it where players will naturally look to find it. If that means it happens to be the same place as it is in LotRO, and Guild Wars, and Battlefield, and WoW, and many other games, so be it. All I care about is "Is it fun?"
Trust me, if moving the minimap made the game more fun, we'd move it.
What about forcing players to scan the screen for where their minimap is, because it's not where they expected it to be? Would that make the game less fun? Yeah. It would.
If you jump between games a lot, you'll notice that looking in the wrong corner for your mini-map is a pain. The same is true for any piece of information. It's not fun to die because the designers put your health bar where you weren't looking.
I rotate through EQ2, Eve, WoW, Guild Wars, and a couple of F2P MMOs, so I suffer problem this all the time - Why, oh, why do game designers have to move the interface around on me? Why do I have to learn a new control scheme everytime I want to play a new game?
Oh yeah! Because if they don't, people insult them on forums.
When they have to choose between "do I make it fun?" or "do I avoid being mocked?" they choose to sacrifice fun and save their egos.
Not me.
I'll dive on the grenade. I'll make the sacrifice. I will suffer the slings and arrows of forum-troll-after-forum-troll saying that Alganon looks like <insert favorite MMO here>, as long I get to make Alganon fun.
So, go ahead, let the mocking begin - but don't let it keep you from enjoying the game. Don't let it keep you from having fun, because there is only one thing I care about: "Is it fun?"
Nothing else matters.
I can assure you, it's not a hoax. The paycheck I get every month is all the proof I need. I have no idea if we'll be releasing video any time soon, but if that is the only thing that will satisfy you, then there is no reason for me to write any more on that topic.
As far as the similarities to other games, my response is this: The ONLY rule that guides my design is "Is it fun?" Nothing else matters.
For example:
Would moving the mini-map to another portion of the screen make the game more fun? Nope.
Then we're going to put it where players will naturally look to find it. If that means it happens to be the same place as it is in LotRO, and Guild Wars, and Battlefield, and WoW, and many other games, so be it. All I care about is "Is it fun?"
Trust me, if moving the minimap made the game more fun, we'd move it.
What about forcing players to scan the screen for where their minimap is, because it's not where they expected it to be? Would that make the game less fun? Yeah. It would.
If you jump between games a lot, you'll notice that looking in the wrong corner for your mini-map is a pain. The same is true for any piece of information. It's not fun to die because the designers put your health bar where you weren't looking.
I rotate through EQ2, Eve, WoW, Guild Wars, and a couple of F2P MMOs, so I suffer problem this all the time - Why, oh, why do game designers have to move the interface around on me? Why do I have to learn a new control scheme everytime I want to play a new game?
Oh yeah! Because if they don't, people insult them on forums.
When they have to choose between "do I make it fun?" or "do I avoid being mocked?" they choose to sacrifice fun and save their egos.
Not me.
I'll dive on the grenade. I'll make the sacrifice. I will suffer the slings and arrows of forum-troll-after-forum-troll saying that Alganon looks like <insert favorite MMO here>, as long I get to make Alganon fun.
So, go ahead, let the mocking begin - but don't let it keep you from enjoying the game. Don't let it keep you from having fun, because there is only one thing I care about: "Is it fun?"
Nothing else matters.
#7
EtherBoo
-
- Members
-
- 4 posts
Newbie
Posted 15 June 2008 - 06:34 PM
Fair enough, I respect that. Similarities in the UI are forgivable. I read a similar thread, and I had no idea that MMOs tend to use the same interface, however, I'm just going to say there are ways of disguising the look so it appears new and different. Different shapes, different colors, etc. etc..
Apart from the UI, how do you explain similarities in the look? The character Swank wearing the same clothes as the beginning WoW Warrior. The similarities in zone names? The similarities of the mini-map style? Even if we agree that default UIs are pretty much standardized (I did play TMO Beta, and the UI was different and it sucked), I have a hard time buying that the names of the zones in the world are just all that similar by coincidence, but it's OK, because the Lore has been around for longer than Blizzard's Warcraft Lore. I say I need some citations on that to be honest.
More similarities I've found:
1) ALGANON supports both PvE and PvP server types. Both server types will feature Battlegrounds and a ranking system that reflects in both title and the ability to acquire specific items and even skills.
2) There will be many different types of items in the world. Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, Bags, and Materials are just a few. Items will need to be repaired as they become worn, but it's easy to find a repairer in most villages, towns, and cities. Items come in six flavors: common, special, enchanted, magical, legendary, and godlike.
Both examples above are almost exactly like WoW with a couple of additions.
Lastly...
Just because someone has criticism and concerns, it does not make them a troll.
Apart from the UI, how do you explain similarities in the look? The character Swank wearing the same clothes as the beginning WoW Warrior. The similarities in zone names? The similarities of the mini-map style? Even if we agree that default UIs are pretty much standardized (I did play TMO Beta, and the UI was different and it sucked), I have a hard time buying that the names of the zones in the world are just all that similar by coincidence, but it's OK, because the Lore has been around for longer than Blizzard's Warcraft Lore. I say I need some citations on that to be honest.
More similarities I've found:
1) ALGANON supports both PvE and PvP server types. Both server types will feature Battlegrounds and a ranking system that reflects in both title and the ability to acquire specific items and even skills.
2) There will be many different types of items in the world. Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, Bags, and Materials are just a few. Items will need to be repaired as they become worn, but it's easy to find a repairer in most villages, towns, and cities. Items come in six flavors: common, special, enchanted, magical, legendary, and godlike.
Both examples above are almost exactly like WoW with a couple of additions.
Lastly...
Just because someone has criticism and concerns, it does not make them a troll.
#8
Syndic
-
- Members
-
- 1886 posts
Member
- LocationPerth, WAustralia
Posted 16 June 2008 - 12:33 AM
All I can say is that in point one, I haven't come across a game yet that doesn't offer PvE and PvP in some regard. Any company developing a game will want to cover as many bases as they can. The type of PvP may change, some are free-for-all, others are team based. The battle grounds part I don't know about I'm an antiPvP person anyway, but it is certainly something that is not unique to WoW. Battlegrounds/Arenas etc are a way of keeping people interested in the game long after they have reached the maximum level, adding rewards to it just makes it even more inticing to players. There are many players who find battlegrounds fun, so why wouldn't you add it if you could (and it fits obviously).More similarities I've found:
1) ALGANON supports both PvE and PvP server types. Both server types will feature Battlegrounds and a ranking system that reflects in both title and the ability to acquire specific items and even skills.
2) There will be many different types of items in the world. Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, Bags, and Materials are just a few. Items will need to be repaired as they become worn, but it's easy to find a repairer in most villages, towns, and cities. Items come in six flavors: common, special, enchanted, magical, legendary, and godlike.
On 2, again there is nothing new here, EQ2 has items grades also - common, uncommon, treasured, legendary, fabled & mythical. EQ2, Horizons, EQ1 and about a hundred other games all have inventories which require the character to have weapons, armour, jewelry, bags, resources etc etc. This all goes back to D&D pen and paper days. I must admit though I have only played one game that didn't have equipment and that was City of Heroes, and I found it very lacking because of it, although equipment most likely would not have fit into the design of the game.
I admit in this regard Alganon is not doing anything new, but no means was this even close to new for WoW either. These things are a staple of a fantasy RPG, these ideas go back further than computers let alone WoW.
Interestingly I've heard D&D 4th edition being described now as a MMORPG converted to paper. Seems even the pen and paper game is borrowing things from it's children.
Adrios - Syndic (Soldier), Kadden (Mage); Hokk - Thrawn (Ranger); Toskala - Nelina (Healer)
Family - Mitthrawnurodo (Talrok)
Family - Mitthrawnurodo (Talrok)
#9
Grimmway
-
- Members
-
- 941 posts
Deity
- LocationDallas, TX
Posted 16 June 2008 - 02:32 AM
Lastly...
Just because someone has criticism and concerns, it does not make them a troll.
That alone does not. Surely if you read the entire thread (yes, that thread), most of your questions would be addressed, individually, and in volume.
But I'll give you credit - thanks for registering your name.
And Hyuu, awesome response from a Dev!
Grimmway
#11
FalconHeart
-
- Members
-
- 5 posts
Newbie
Posted 24 June 2008 - 07:26 AM
Actually if you want to point to any part of the UI being like anything else you are going to have to go back much farther that WoW for the mini-map being in the upper right corner to a game called BattleZone a turtle shell graphic tank game simulator in arcades in the 80s. I believe that was the first case of that placement.
You might also find other such similarities in other places, if I remember correctly there was a bottom of screen 'action bar' in Dungeons & Dragons on the Intellivision (which yes I am old enough to have played when it was the latest game system), and the health/mana bars like that go back to early NES.
If things have worked before, I see no reason to change them. Or perhaps we should change the shape for each hammer in the world so that each carpenter isn't using the same tools and therefore stealing the tools of others.
Yes the name is similar: Azeroth and Asheroth. Of course Az er oth is not as similar to Ash roth. Pronunciation differences can be even greater with a few other changes in the phonetic use of the words.
I personally have no problem with people putting together a game using tools that are familiar, as long as the game is entertaining to play, and brings out a creativity in me when I play the game.
You might also find other such similarities in other places, if I remember correctly there was a bottom of screen 'action bar' in Dungeons & Dragons on the Intellivision (which yes I am old enough to have played when it was the latest game system), and the health/mana bars like that go back to early NES.
If things have worked before, I see no reason to change them. Or perhaps we should change the shape for each hammer in the world so that each carpenter isn't using the same tools and therefore stealing the tools of others.
Yes the name is similar: Azeroth and Asheroth. Of course Az er oth is not as similar to Ash roth. Pronunciation differences can be even greater with a few other changes in the phonetic use of the words.
I personally have no problem with people putting together a game using tools that are familiar, as long as the game is entertaining to play, and brings out a creativity in me when I play the game.
#13
Miklo
-
- Members
-
- 10 posts
Member
Posted 30 June 2008 - 05:38 AM
Placements of the UI is not the problem.
The problem is that it looks like you stolen the textures and models right out of WoW, its not similar... its the same.
Also a found that some of the screenshots shows models of things that acually are in WoW with the exact same models, windmills etc.
And when people see this and the Asheroth name in the same place, you cant be taken seriously.
Sorry but thats just my two cents.
The problem is that it looks like you stolen the textures and models right out of WoW, its not similar... its the same.
Also a found that some of the screenshots shows models of things that acually are in WoW with the exact same models, windmills etc.
And when people see this and the Asheroth name in the same place, you cant be taken seriously.
Sorry but thats just my two cents.
#16
Spartikus
-
- Members
-
- 20 posts
Member
Posted 23 July 2008 - 02:04 PM
Guys there is no need to beat up on him for asking a question.. And way to dance around the answer by the way..
In all honesty it looks like Quest is simply running a WoW emu and building their own towns and stuff with it. At the very least textures AND models have been stripped out of WoW for this. It's got nothing to do with having a "Similar" UI in so much as it has to do with actually reusing WoWs game assets.
Very low brow for what is supposed to be a legitimate MMO attempt.
Any answers to that? Is quest simply using an EMU to test proof of concept or what?
In all honesty it looks like Quest is simply running a WoW emu and building their own towns and stuff with it. At the very least textures AND models have been stripped out of WoW for this. It's got nothing to do with having a "Similar" UI in so much as it has to do with actually reusing WoWs game assets.
Very low brow for what is supposed to be a legitimate MMO attempt.
Any answers to that? Is quest simply using an EMU to test proof of concept or what?
#17
Spartikus
-
- Members
-
- 20 posts
Member
Posted 23 July 2008 - 02:45 PM
Just incase some folks arent quite getting the question clearly..
"Alganon" screenshot:
http://www.alganon.com/images/screenshots/...6533screen4.jpg
Wow screenshot:
http://www.aakrana.com/images/wow1.jpg
some minor texture editing but other than that..
Yeah..
"Alganon" screenshot:
http://www.alganon.com/images/screenshots/...6533screen4.jpg
Wow screenshot:
http://www.aakrana.com/images/wow1.jpg
some minor texture editing but other than that..
Yeah..
#18
Kenzo
-
- Members
-
- 192 posts
Prophet
Posted 23 July 2008 - 04:51 PM
Just incase some folks arent quite getting the question clearly..
"Alganon" screenshot:
http://www.alganon.com/images/screenshots/...6533screen4.jpg
Wow screenshot:
http://www.aakrana.com/images/wow1.jpg
some minor texture editing but other than that..
Yeah..
so what ? it does looks alot like WoW and perhaps the devs did that on purpose, since the WoWish feeling with attract lots of people. But graphics is not everything, if you read what there planning to add ;-)
#19
Jergis
-
- Members
-
- 824 posts
Deity
- LocationOklahoma
Posted 23 July 2008 - 06:31 PM
-A rose by any other name...
There are two main issues here that will, unfortunately, continue to float to the top as the game progresses. The first is the use of a very-similar (but not exact) graphical design to WoW, the second the content and naming conventions (which is much less of an issue from what i have seen). Both of these 'issues' that seem to be the focus of much whining, lambasting, and gnashing of teeth are neatly resolved legally in an area called Intellectual Property.
Alganon ain't paying me to defend them, and that is not the primary intent of this post. Further, I have nothing against Blizzard as a company, and i have enjoyed a number of their games over the years, including being a World of Warcraft player. They know what they're doing, and good on them for it. And i know what i am going to say will probably 'feed the trolls' but i'm getting tired of seeing the same simplistic argument and 'you stole it' accusation.
In the realm of intellectual property, there are ways that you can protect certain aspects of a game. The names, the story, the graphical look by protecting the code, and even the font (*cough*) are all generally available for legal protection. If Blizzard's UI and the UI used in Alganon share characteristics, a very similar look, and share coding, then Blizzard would have the authority to send a cease and desist letter to Quest if the protected their intellectual property and it fit other general criteria. This also would apply to thing ssuch as repairable items, Battleground instance, ability and item slots, if they actually belonged to Blizzard. However, these don't belong to Blizzard anymore than they belong to DnD, Lord of the Rings, or any other story wherein the mechanic was used.
However, if Blizzard established this intellectual property as open content, with no such protection, it is a more difficult argument to enforce the right to protect it from another company that "steals" it for their use as open content is, by design, meant to be 'stolen'. There are varying degress of this, however, and not all open content would allow just anyone to appropriate, but instead allow individual users only to modify, use, etc. Again, depends on protections in place and intent on design.
The basic idea of any IP is that the protection is designed to prevent others from profiting from your work. But if Blizzard simply didn't care, they have the ability to allow every MMO that is ever created from this point forward to use their UI. If Quest did indeed 'steal' coding or other UI elements that are protected intellectual property, it will change it. But i doubt they're that dumb.
Do i personally think they should change it? Maybe. I'd like to see a different, better look in the UI for this game. The game is in very early stages of development, so i imagine that it will change over time to something that is more particular to the feel of this game. But does it have to? That i don't know, it depends on the companies and the code.
The naming conventions follow the same path, but a name is very difficult to protect as intellectual property. I won't go into details here either, other than to say all it would take would be a c&d letter from Blizzard (with appropriate documentation and authority) to begin discussion of the issue. But do they have to change them? Probably not, nor should they if it is their story and authorship at issue.
In summation, i have no idea why people that will not be playing this game even comment in the forums. But i would suggest you consider this little bit o'fact: your vaunted Blizzard, and companies before them, do not have clean hands in this area/accusation either. Pot, kettle, he who is without sin cast the first stone, all that nonsense. Now, if anyone else wants to troll, kick, punch, gripe, whine, or any other metaphorically-appropriate statement on this issue, don't waste our time or yours.
Blizzard is a big boy, if he has something to say he can come on down here and say it to our face. Preferrably on attorney letterhead and with big words.
Jergis
There are two main issues here that will, unfortunately, continue to float to the top as the game progresses. The first is the use of a very-similar (but not exact) graphical design to WoW, the second the content and naming conventions (which is much less of an issue from what i have seen). Both of these 'issues' that seem to be the focus of much whining, lambasting, and gnashing of teeth are neatly resolved legally in an area called Intellectual Property.
Alganon ain't paying me to defend them, and that is not the primary intent of this post. Further, I have nothing against Blizzard as a company, and i have enjoyed a number of their games over the years, including being a World of Warcraft player. They know what they're doing, and good on them for it. And i know what i am going to say will probably 'feed the trolls' but i'm getting tired of seeing the same simplistic argument and 'you stole it' accusation.
In the realm of intellectual property, there are ways that you can protect certain aspects of a game. The names, the story, the graphical look by protecting the code, and even the font (*cough*) are all generally available for legal protection. If Blizzard's UI and the UI used in Alganon share characteristics, a very similar look, and share coding, then Blizzard would have the authority to send a cease and desist letter to Quest if the protected their intellectual property and it fit other general criteria. This also would apply to thing ssuch as repairable items, Battleground instance, ability and item slots, if they actually belonged to Blizzard. However, these don't belong to Blizzard anymore than they belong to DnD, Lord of the Rings, or any other story wherein the mechanic was used.
However, if Blizzard established this intellectual property as open content, with no such protection, it is a more difficult argument to enforce the right to protect it from another company that "steals" it for their use as open content is, by design, meant to be 'stolen'. There are varying degress of this, however, and not all open content would allow just anyone to appropriate, but instead allow individual users only to modify, use, etc. Again, depends on protections in place and intent on design.
The basic idea of any IP is that the protection is designed to prevent others from profiting from your work. But if Blizzard simply didn't care, they have the ability to allow every MMO that is ever created from this point forward to use their UI. If Quest did indeed 'steal' coding or other UI elements that are protected intellectual property, it will change it. But i doubt they're that dumb.
Do i personally think they should change it? Maybe. I'd like to see a different, better look in the UI for this game. The game is in very early stages of development, so i imagine that it will change over time to something that is more particular to the feel of this game. But does it have to? That i don't know, it depends on the companies and the code.
The naming conventions follow the same path, but a name is very difficult to protect as intellectual property. I won't go into details here either, other than to say all it would take would be a c&d letter from Blizzard (with appropriate documentation and authority) to begin discussion of the issue. But do they have to change them? Probably not, nor should they if it is their story and authorship at issue.
In summation, i have no idea why people that will not be playing this game even comment in the forums. But i would suggest you consider this little bit o'fact: your vaunted Blizzard, and companies before them, do not have clean hands in this area/accusation either. Pot, kettle, he who is without sin cast the first stone, all that nonsense. Now, if anyone else wants to troll, kick, punch, gripe, whine, or any other metaphorically-appropriate statement on this issue, don't waste our time or yours.
Blizzard is a big boy, if he has something to say he can come on down here and say it to our face. Preferrably on attorney letterhead and with big words.
Jergis
#20
Spartikus
-
- Members
-
- 20 posts
Member
Posted 23 July 2008 - 08:49 PM
-Blizzard is a big boy, if he has something to say he can come on down here and say it to our face. Preferrably on attorney letterhead and with big words.
Jergis
So you are saying that it's ok to plagerize stuff as long as Blizzard doesnt come down and beat you up? Ok gotcha..
And thanks for evading the original question yet again.. Is David simply using a WoWEmu to build up his world as a proof of concept? If you dont know then dont answer.. pretty simple.
PS: and since you seem to be an utter simpleton, could you re-read my post and point out to me where I am "whining and lambasting"? It's got nothing to do with whining etc, it's got to do with stealing someone elses work and presenting it as your own.
Unbeknownsed to you friend, I have had nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for David Allen's work for the last 12 years. I have known of him and about him for a long time and actively followed his development work. I always wanted to see what a final creation from him would be like as he had some fantastic ideas and concepts. David and I have communicated personally on several occasions.
So before you get your panties in a bunch calling me a bunch of names like some rabidly blind fanboi why don't you go through 5+ years of software development on your own MMO and then you will know why it's kind of important for people to be upfront about their work.
If this is all just some bizare coincidence then so be it. Truth is, even if it is coincidence it's a doozy. And with fanbois like you making a rude stink about anyone asking about it all you do is further discredit the developers if it is all just some strange misunderstanding.
So why dont you chill out and let David or someone from Quest clear this up.
Thanks.
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
