20 replies to this topic

[Cinae]

I know this really doesn't make any sense in game at this time, but I thought maybe getting a headstart to someone might help in the long run.

Since there is obviously a threat table in-game right now, how hard would it be for the UI guy to whip up a visual for it?

Now I know it isn't entirely accurate and that modders can make one far more convenient/accurate than an in-game one (I could be wrong) but having any sort of management visual would definetely help headaches in the long run.

Who really wants to "wait and see" if you are too menacing, by that time it is usually too late to back off or slow down your threat, and it definetely makes it harder for the tank.

Now on the other hand a threat meter could be seen as a crutch I guess. Whereas you don't get in there and get your job done and you don't learn your limits the hard way, which I guess is probably for the best.

So here we are with two versions and now I am torn between them myself!

Any ideas?

[Arimer]

Personally I"m against threat meters for the simple fact of it dumbing games down. Also DPS and threat meters usually just turn into an epeen measuring stick after a time anyways.

[Eldaran]

I will give my default answer to this.... EQ didn't have a threat meter! Wizards learned the hard way how to keep their damage in check.


And now for a real answer:

An in game threat meter would really be fine and wouldn't really obstruct my immersion, but for the most part it is the Tanks job to maintain aggro and it is the healer and DPS peoples job to limit how much healing/dps they are throwing out there. I'm sure someone will mod it eventually even if it isn't put in officially.

[Cinae]

I agree with you Arimer, that's why I became conflicted as I was typing, and instead of just deleting my post I decided to see how everyone else felt about the issue.

I honestly hope that there never is a DPS meter here, I hate them, they make the game feel like freaking work.

Threat meters I could go either way with, I don't know if I would like it, but not sure I would be against it either. It can be useful, to a point. But like you said it also dumbs the game down.

[Radium]

Personally I"m against threat meters for the simple fact of it dumbing games down. Also DPS and threat meters usually just turn into an epeen measuring stick after a time anyways.

I read this thread when first posted. Decided to stop and think a bit before responding, for a change. Coming back to it now I think I like your post.

WOW turned the world into whoever had the most mods wins. It has nothing to do with a person actually having to learn anything. Also not having all the mods gets rid of people having to use sites like Curse that were installing key loggers. Never should a company put their customers at risk of these outside sites like Curse.

[morphene]

I think you don't really need threat meters in games that only use simple tank and spank mechanics for raid mobs. The reason they became so crucial in wow is because they started making such heavy use of scripted encounters where dps and threat weren't applied consistently throughout the fight, and the fact that some bosses have scripted agro wipes. Once they became in common use the designers more or less assumed you had one installed when designing encounters, making them defacto required. So far, every group kill in alganon doesn't even have a single special so until more complex encounters come I really wouldn't worry about threat meters.

[Mystilla]

Even though when I played WoW I had dozens of mods running, I never used a DPS or threat meter. Mainly just cosmetic stuff,map mods and shortcuts to crafting and the AH.

I Never liked DPS or threat meters and I hope that they don't have them here. For the same reason that was stated above. Let the players themselves do the thinking and adjust to each situation as needed.

[Eldaran]

Its all about moderation. A good healer knows how many heals he can cast before the boss targets him. A great mage will be able to hold back on that last nuke just to be safe. It creates a lot more suspense and creates another environment for skillful players to rise to the top. I've never used a DPS or threat meter, and I will "heal the crap" out of a good teamfight.

[Lodor]

As morph said above, there is little reason to have a threat meter in a low script use game.

Only games that it is somewhat needed are WoW and EQ2 because they both have insanely scripted content now days.

And for the most part, least imo, threat meters really dumb down combat and make people have to think and pay attention a lot less.

[Cinae]

These are all for the most part the answers I was hoping to recieve on this issue.

/tipshat

It's good to know that I'm not the only one.

And to bring up an old thread in the UI section, well a "Link from" an old thread

[Swordmage]

With luck, thinks like DPS and threat levels will not even be accessible via the mod interface. I am a fan of cosmetic add-ons (things like new skins for the UI and such); however, I am concerned that we not end up with combat automation mods. I really hope that information not available via the default UI is not made available to mods.

[bairanax]

At this point, my feelings on the subject of mods in general, is that I really want mods that can change the look of the UI. I would like the freedom to break apart the hot bars, bag bar, etc.. I would love to move the map and quest tracking around.

As others have said, until there are heavily scripted raid encounters in this game, threat meters are not an issue. I also have to agree that Blizzard did in fact design raid encounters around the assumption that people used such mods. An example of one fight from WoW would be Gurtogg Bloodboil. Two or three tanks rotating between the attention of the boss based on who has a debuff and who doesn't, along with each tank staying near each other in threat.

[Gargothen]

I will give my default answer to this.... EQ didn't have a threat meter! Wizards learned the hard way how to keep their damage in check.

I absolutely 110% agree with this... I learned to be a good cleric by learning how to manage my aggro and work with my team. I did not have any fancy meters, logs or something telling me to stand here and not sit and med there.

I can understand why people like those things, but personally I do not like them at all. I come from the school of thought that it was nice when games took skill to play a class instead of button mashing and flashy add ons telling me what to do and when to do it. I felt like I had mastered my class in EQ when I could assist heal and bounce targets based on aggro when raiding and etc... while managing my aggro and keeping my group alive even in a pinch.

Games today do not have that same level of skill needed... maybe that is part of the reason why I can't find a game that really keeps me entertained.

Short answer... this game is already easy enough. It does not need graphs, mods and other stuff that tell you what to do and when to do it.

sorry if that got a little longed winded.

[Eldaran]

I love how like minded most of this community is. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most of us are from the old school MMO scene where people actually cared about eachother and took time to master the class they played.

[Kelody]

Not that I'm a min/max person, but DPS meters did find a bunch of bugs in WoW.

[Barlow]

Ok, the short answer..

DPS meters are ridiculous. All you hear about is "my dps is better bla bla bla" --
Threat meters are EVEN WORSE -- Your a damn DPS class pay attention.. Im sick of casters saying OMG I did 2348057896234 DMG and got aggroe.. stupid tank.. Get a life. Tanks who don't taunt etc, will be known, and good tanks will be known as well.

EverQuest is the best example, non of those were in the game, and players had to PAY attention and play right.

Simplifying combat that much is not fun for even your AVERAGE gamer.

[Athika]

I'm with Barlow 100%. This has to be one of my biggest pet peeves in any group based game. It doesnt matter who's doing what damage as long as what needs to be done gets done. As far as threat meters go...As a tank I always assume I'm about to lose aggro so there's really nothing more I could be doing even if I did have a meter.

Oh and Barlow...My post did more damage than yours

[Gargothen]

Oh and Barlow...My post did more damage than yours

lmao

[Eldaran]

So we all agree....


"No bragging unless you accomplished your achievement WITHOUT the aid of robots!"

[Tork]

I learned to group without threat meters. I used threat meters and sometimes they were useful. I agree that they were necessary due to the completity of many WoW fights.

This is not to say that Alganon will never have one or allow addon makers to link into the threat system. I don't know what the gurus may do with boss fights and encounters.

Tork's Simple Rules for Simple MMO Group Play as a DPS:
1) Wait 2 seconds for the tank to grab threat.
2) If you pull a mob off the tank run to the tank
3) If you die as a DPS it's your fault

These are similar to my other rules.

Tork's Simple Rules for Simple MMO Group Play as a Healer:
1) Keep the tank alive
2) Keep yourself alive
3) See rules 1 and 2


Tork's Simple Rules for Simple MMO Group Play as Tank:
1) Know your pulls
2) Know your DPS
3) Maintain communication with your DPS is they are being stupid

and of course

Tork's Simple Rules for Simple MMO Group Play as a Resto Shaman in WoW:
1) Chain heal
2) See rule 1