68 replies to this topic

[Buffer]

I Knew that the Healer would be adjusted, however the lag time in casting and the spell offset diferential has made it very difficult to stay alive let alone fight more than 1 mob at a time.Healers have no armor to speak of and the damage recieved during Combat is making the healer die before all the spell diferentials
and lags in casting allow casting enough damage to survive

[Swordmage]

I would expect healers and magi to have a rough time with multiples (by design). I have yet to try a healer past level 6 so I am not sure if they have any crowd control skills to fall back on but something along that line might be nice when ganged up on.

[Chyra]

At level 31 it doesn't seem worthwhile to spec in my damage abilities now. While I can pull with a nuke, I'm not able to use any of my nukes during the fight now and just have to wand the mobs to death, relying on a couple instant cast abilities. It's still doable with one mob and even two on occasion depending on level. Going to have to experiment with different specs to see if anything works better.

Previously I thought the pushback would be a chance for pushback, not a guarantee interrupt every time they hit me. Makes the majority of my abilities not usable.

[Voltron]

I Knew that the Healer would be adjusted, however the lag time in casting and the spell offset diferential has made it very difficult to stay alive let alone fight more than 1 mob at a time.Healers have no armor to speak of and the damage recieved during Combat is making the healer die before all the spell diferentials
and lags in casting allow casting enough damage to survive

A lot of people, mostly people who probably won't even be playing Alganon when it costs money to play, complain it's too easy. So, the devs then give those people what they want, by making the game 'much harder.' Champions Online is a great example. A lot of folks loved the game, but the day of release they patched the game and changed everything, catering to a minor minority, who wanted a hard, group dependent game. Alganon is heading in that same direction, with crafting interdependency, a philosophy which eq2 embraced and abandoned, because most people hated it.

And the 'balance' issues, making healers and probably magus weak, & feeble in comparison to tank and ranged classes that have avoidance and heavy mitigation in their favor.

It will be a quick stay for most folks when they realize that Alganon is heading in the direction of becoming a throw-back to the old EQ days, where if you didn't have a group, you might as well go play something else.

Time will tell, but I'm sorry you are struggling. Hopefully they improve your class, because all I've seen so far are nerfs to Magus/Healers, and mob buffs that make it even harder to play solo ...

Solo should always be an option, and not an option that's painful.

Solo, like grouping, should be Fun. And yet, it doesn't sound to me from your post like you're having much fun ...

[Mhantra]

A lot of people, mostly people who probably won't even be playing Alganon when it costs money to play, complain it's too easy. So, the devs then give those people what they want, by making the game 'much harder.' Champions Online is a great example. A lot of folks loved the game, but the day of release they patched the game and changed everything, catering to a minor minority, who wanted a hard, group dependent game. Alganon is heading in that same direction, with crafting interdependency, a philosophy which eq2 embraced and abandoned, because most people hated it.

And the 'balance' issues, making healers and probably magus weak, & feeble in comparison to tank and ranged classes that have avoidance and heavy mitigation in their favor.

It will be a quick stay for most folks when they realize that Alganon is heading in the direction of becoming a throw-back to the old EQ days, where if you didn't have a group, you might as well go play something else.

Time will tell, but I'm sorry you are struggling. Hopefully they improve your class, because all I've seen so far are nerfs to Magus/Healers, and mob buffs that make it even harder to play solo ...

Solo should always be an option, and not an option that's painful.

Solo, like grouping, should be Fun. And yet, it doesn't sound to me from your post like you're having much fun ...

Wow, you are so knowledgable about the future! Thanks for sharing your negative insight!

However, I can share a little something as well. It has been said by jdsmith that adjustments will come:

"As with all the patches this is the first time these features have been seen outside of our dev environment and much tweaking will ensue to make sure it ends up performing as expected."

[BrokenBrain]

A lot of people, mostly people who probably won't even be playing Alganon when it costs money to play, complain it's too easy. So, the devs then give those people what they want, by making the game 'much harder.' Champions Online is a great example. A lot of folks loved the game, but the day of release they patched the game and changed everything, catering to a minor minority, who wanted a hard, group dependent game. Alganon is heading in that same direction, with crafting interdependency, a philosophy which eq2 embraced and abandoned, because most people hated it.

And the 'balance' issues, making healers and probably magus weak, & feeble in comparison to tank and ranged classes that have avoidance and heavy mitigation in their favor.

It will be a quick stay for most folks when they realize that Alganon is heading in the direction of becoming a throw-back to the old EQ days, where if you didn't have a group, you might as well go play something else.

Time will tell, but I'm sorry you are struggling. Hopefully they improve your class, because all I've seen so far are nerfs to Magus/Healers, and mob buffs that make it even harder to play solo ...

Solo should always be an option, and not an option that's painful.

Solo, like grouping, should be Fun. And yet, it doesn't sound to me from your post like you're having much fun ...

I will be playing at launch. I played a healer. I quit playing a healer because I felt invincible. That is not fun to me.

I haven't been able to get in to the game since the patch to try out healers (don't freak devs my router hates all MMOs equally), but from what I hear there may have been some overcompensation.

I'm sure if healers are unable to level, the devs will fix that. They should not be a killing machine unless they are specced as a damage dealer; letting them heal and deal damage comparable to a damage dealing class is a balance issue. I love playing healing classes but do not want to be some overpowered class that takes no skill to play. If there is no challenge, there is no point.

So there you go... someone who fully intends to play the game at launch who says they were too strong (and I said it before the patch too). I'm sure you will find some way to dismiss my comments as irrelevant.

[Voltron]

Not dismissing anyones comments.

I based my opinion purely on my experience with Champion's Online and the latest patch notes for Alganon. There is a slider, you see, where some people want a fun, solo friendly, yet group viable game, and others feel a game is too easy, and want it made much harder to suit their own preferred play style.

I am not negative, I presented only facts, the healers/magus classes have both been nerfed repeatedly in the patch notes, and the mobs have now been buffed considerably, according to the recent patch notes.

This kind of thing would keep me from playing classes that are being nerfed, because those classes probably are all out of wack and will be tweaked for many, many months before either is on par with where they should be.

I have played many betas and seen this kind of things over and over, anyone play Vanguards beta? The Blood Mage, which I loved, got torn to bits and changed completely just before release.

I speak from experience, and also, the original poster didn't seem to me to be having fun, so I was saying I'm sorry for him, as I have had the same thing happen to me, and I ended up giving up on both the character I loved, and the game I liked because someone claimed they needed to be nerfed/changed and things made much harder.

See how many healers there are, if they can't solo, see how many healers there are, if they are dependent on groups to do squat.

Look at WOW and you'll see that the "flavor of the month" class is always the most popular class. Nobody, or most folks, don't want a lame character that can't do anything.

They want to feel powerful, and have fun.

Not make playing a game a chore.

[BrokenBrain]

Not dismissing anyones comments.

I based my opinion purely on my experience with Champion's Online and the latest patch notes for Alganon. There is a slider, you see, where some people want a fun, solo friendly, yet group viable game, and others feel a game is too easy, and want it made much harder to suit their own preferred play style.

I am not negative, I presented only facts, the healers/magus classes have both been nerfed repeatedly in the patch notes, and the mobs have now been buffed considerably, according to the recent patch notes.

This kind of thing would keep me from playing classes that are being nerfed, because those classes probably are all out of wack and will be tweaked for many, many months before either is on par with where they should be.

I have played many betas and seen this kind of things over and over, anyone play Vanguards beta? The Blood Mage, which I loved, got torn to bits and changed completely just before release.

I speak from experience, and also, the original poster didn't seem to me to be having fun, so I was saying I'm sorry for him, as I have had the same thing happen to me, and I ended up giving up on both the character I loved, and the game I liked because someone claimed they needed to be nerfed/changed and things made much harder.

See how many healers there are, if they can't solo, see how many healers there are, if they are dependent on groups to do squat.

Look at WOW and you'll see that the "flavor of the month" class is always the most popular class. Nobody, or most folks, don't want a lame character that can't do anything.

They want to feel powerful, and have fun.

Not make playing a game a chore.

The devs have made it fairly clear they want this game to be accessible to casual players. Casual players will always need to be able to solo; casual usually means you can't be online on a set schedule and will need to be able to level regardless of whether your friends are online.

So rest assured the devs have incentive to make sure every class has the ability to solo.

That being said, making overpowered classes may please a few people, but it will be detrimental to the game overall. If healers have the same offensive power as a magus, but have strong heals, they are virtually invincible. Why would anyone roll a magus?

Support classes are never going to be incredibly fun while soloing; it's part of the nature of the classes. They kill slowly, although they rarely die due to self-healing (or in the case of tanks, being tough to kill). However, they are rewarding enough in group content that people will assuredly continue to roll them. I would recommend anyone wanting to exclusively solo as a healer that they spec into the damage dealing tree in order to have fun solo play.

I am not saying the devs didn't overcompensate for the problem, from what it sounds like they did. But please don't dismiss the concerns of the people who said they were overpowered as elitists who want the game to be all group content. Don't get me wrong; I love raiding. But I fully intend to solo my healer the vast majority of the way to level cap. I dislike hardcore players who believe that anyone who isn't hardcore needs to find another game; I like Alganon's non-elitist atmosphere.

Asking for the game to be balanced is not a hardcore, elitist request. It is just stating that no one should ever be invincible.

[Voltron]

You present a nice idea.

However, why should a Magus solo better then a priest? Or a tank solo better than a magus/healer, or a ranger solo better or be able to take on more mobs "because" Healers are designated "support" class?"

If you say a healer should rely on groups, then you are saying they can't solo. If you say, oh, Mr. Healer, you need to spend your talent points in your dps tree or you are going to be gimped compared to other classes "by design!" then you are boxing Healers into 2 groups, those than con solo and those that can't or can, but very slowly compared to other classes or those with different talent choices.

The point I was making is that you, minority since you are (1), feel healers were overpowered and wanted them Nerfed significantly. But does everyone feel that way? Did a lot of people want/demand them nerfed? It seems to be that you want the difficulty leveled ramped up, well, you got your wish, but from the original poster it sounds to me like not everyone was on board with seeing their chosen class get hit big time with that beautiful nerf-bat.

Well, you stated a lot of people will roll healers because there is a lot of group content to support them, well, I hope you're right. It's pretty obvious to me that if people feel they can't solo or the game is too hard, they will roll another class or go play another game.

The idea of classes being "support only" is outdated. Very few people enjoy playing a gimped class that is dependent on others to level.

The only solution is for them to add dual spec options. So a healer can be dps and at a switch of a button, be support, or the class will probably attract very few people.

And lastly, hasn't the dual roll system stated that if you need a tank any soldier will do, and wouldn't that stand true for healers as well? So even a full dps specced healer should be able to heal just fine in instances, if their vision of dual rolls holds true.

Which means, nerf heals, nerf dps, etc, etc etc. Nerfs nerfs nerfs. Why would anyone want to play such an unfinished class this close to release?

[eveque67]

Although Voltron may have come off abrasive to some.. not me. I am also a victim of Champions Online beta last minute swap.
I play a healer. I like to solo allot. If I cant, I wont play a healer, I will play whatever class is the flavor of the month that does solo the best.
I was highly annoyed when I started today and couldn't even take on 2 mobs. I couldn't even get the heals off fast enough to even stay alive.
I also agree with Voltros assessment of the lack of healers later on if they are gimped. No one will play them.. Its a fact of life. No one logs on just to get kicked around while their friends progress.
"Oh please please pick me for your team" /raise hand and jump Because I cant solo effectively.
And one more /second for Voltron.. I have no statistical FACT or data sheets.. just opinion and experience. When the nerf-bat swings.. it almost ALWAYS overcompensates. Then that class is the weakest, another becomes the strongest and a month later they move down the chart. Its a constant revolution of Who Can Be The Weakest game.

I will give the devs time to study their readouts and charts and see if that is where they want them or not. They have been very responsive to the public and have not only earned the trust needed to be patient but also deserve it. That being said.. I'm still not going to play my gimped healer.. they can get stats off someone else.. grrrr
I get VERY little time to play right now due to family issues... I will not spend it online being frustrated or annoyed. I will just play a different class or whatever.

And for all you who think I came off a little strong.. did you skip the part about me being "highly annoyed" that I have to run from 2 mobs?

Oh, and before anyone says that was just 1 example. My credentials go all the way back to beta EQ1. So yeah, I know about nerf-bats. I am also not naive to think no changes are necessary. It just sucks when its you that is broken.

Edited by eveque67, 12 November 2009 - 04:07 AM.

[Voltron]

"Asking for the game to be balanced is not a hardcore, elitist request. It is just stating that no one should ever be invincible."

Just like to say "balance" isn't such a great word anymore. It really implies you mean for pvp. Pve balancing between classes is usually no big deal, like a magus doing more dmg than a healer, well, they should do more burst dmg, but overall the classes should solo equally as fast or efficiently.

PVP balancing is essential and demands constant nerfing in order to keep things fair.

PVE, so Joe can kill a little faster then me, or Josh is able to level a little faster thanks to aoe or something, most people don't complain about balance for pve content unless things are really off the charts.

But pvp people, oh how they love to scream, "Nerf X" because he is too powerful ...

[BrokenBrain]

A few points I'd like to make:

1. I do not PvP. What I am talking about is not PvP.

Some people care about PvP. I don't. I personally like to heal raids. But what I'm talking about is overall game balance.

To better illustrate balance, let's imagine that a healer and a magus do equal damage but a healer can heal.

When they pull a regular mob, then they both should be killing the mob before it reaches them. I haven't played magus yet, but this is fairly standard in many MMOs because mages are squishy and can't take the hits.

However, if they pull a significantly stronger mob, such as an elite or a higher level mob, the imbalance becomes apparent. Neither the healer or the magus has the damage to kill the mob before it reaches them. The magus dies in a few hits. However, the healer has the ability to heal some of the damage, making the chance it could emerge from this encounter victorious significantly higher.

This is the imbalance I am referring to.

2. Healers should be able to solo.

I never said healers shouldn't be able to solo. I did say that they are not particularly fun to solo. I didn't mean by that that mobs kill them; I meant that they don't kill particularly fast. This is because their damage should be lower than a damage dealing class, unless they are specced to deal damage.

Some people might even like the slower killing interspersed with self healing; I don't happen to though. I believe that healers are much more fun in groups. But whatever the case, healers should be fully capable of soloing, and if they aren't that is something that the devs should look at. Slow killing, however, is something they will have to live with as long as they can heal themselves.

3. People who want to heal will still roll healers.

Killing slowly while self healing is not gimped. Sure, leveling a healer is not the most fun thing I've ever done, but I've done it multiple times because I really like healing. And I'm not the only one.

Every game I've played, people who like to heal have rolled healers, regardless of how boring leveling is. I have yet to meet someone who said "I really want to heal but I can't stomach leveling a healer."

Granted, I haven't played an insanely grindy game, but it's not like Alganon is going to be one.

If there is a healer shortage, it is related to not enough people liking to heal, not the pain of leveling a healer. This is a big issue in MMOs in general, and is usually caused by a combination of piss poor UIs for healing; the game community generally not understanding good healing and failing to appreciate it; fights that put disproportionate amounts of stress on healers; the list could go on. I personally love healing, but I get why other healers get burnt out.



You made the point that some people in WoW rolled death knights and paladins (I can't remember if you named them specifically but that was the gist I got from your point). You made this as a case that people want classes that are easy to solo. However, it's not as if every single person rolled a death knight or paladin. They weren't even in the majority of the WoW population (unless you are referring to top ranked arena teams). Some people liked having easy soloing classes, but not everyone.

So why does every class have to be the equivalent of a WoW death knight or paladin? If every single class in the game is invulnerable while questing then where is the fun in that? Just mail ever player a Martin's Fury shirt and have done with it.

Honestly, if I didn't plan to roll a healer at launch I wouldn't care much. Whether other players are more invincible than me doesn't bother me. But I would like to have a glimmer of hesitation in my mind when I pull a mob five levels higher than me. Pre-patch I didn't. And that was messed up.

[Voltron]

A. Healers should be AS FUN TO PLAY as ANY OTHER CLASS!!!

Your argument stems from a belief system that assigns Healing classes to have a much harder, boring, and potentially impossible task of keeping up with their friends when leveling. You claim that anyone playing a healer should expect it to be slow going, less fun, and far more tedious than other classes while soloing, etc.

Healing in cloth is a joke. You don't have the mitigation to fight elite mobs (your designation) & stay alive. You claim healing gives you an edge over a Magus ... hmmm, well, when you are healing yourself you aren't dishing out dps. Magus is all about dps, I assume, and they should have some abilities to stay alive, or at least root the mob, etc. Healers, when healing, aren't doing damage, so that edge gives them very little advantage.

Healers should be fun to play. In fact, all classes should be fun. Your claim that Healers should be unfun, or slow levelers, is really not an invitation to new players to choose to be a Healer.

Imagine the class description: Healer = A very hard class to level. Expect to kill slowly, to level slowly, but be in high demand for groups.

Healing is an ability/ same as Fireball, etc. It defines a classes roll, but it shouldn't be to their detriment.

B. WoW

I play a Pally in Wow. I'm currently level 57. I love it. Not because I'm a God, I'm not. A friend and I tried to kill a level 60 elite and got our butts handed to us in Unguro Crater, but you know what, I still had fun~!!

Pally has three specs. They are all so different and unique. I love Retribution for the mana regen, dmg adds, etc, and I really dig the ability to do great dps, heal, and have high survivability. I can be a tank, or a healer, or major DPS. It doesn't make me a GOD, it presents me with OPTIONS and doesn't demand that I play one role. I love the diversity, in fact, I would even call the WOW Paladin the perfect MMO class.

The best part or most important? It's FUN!

C. This game should be Fun. No matter what class you play!

Alganon promises to be unique. It also promises to be a very fun game. What you described for the Healing class didn't sound fun to me.

Your vision of the Healing class isn't unique. It's rather sad and depressing to think you would advocate playing a class that kills slowly, is weaker than other classes, and is, your words, less fun than other classes.

But truth be told, it's clearly what you want, & if you QQ loud enough, I'm sure you'll get it.

[jdsmith]

Just to clarify a little... there is no nerf bat being swung. How can we possibly be nerfing something that wasn't even fully implemented yet? Pushback is a feature that's always been planned and was always going to go in.

Would it have been nice to get it right the first time we patched it in without having 100s of people pounding on it? Sure, we would have loved that! Were we able to? Obviously not. Tweaking things like this is an ongoing process and we will get it right.

Once all of our launch classes have all of their abilities and all of their actions available and once they work as originally intended it's then fair to say nerf bats have been swung when there's a significant decrease in the viability of a given build. Until then? I disagree.

Having said that we definitely do consume all of the feedback we get and the fact that there was such vehement feedback let us know we needed to look at this particular problem sooner rather than later.

Please, keep the feedback coming in full steam. However, people should realize that we are not in nerf mode and our core philosophy on class roles has not changed as we're still tweaking things to get the reality of things to match the theory.

[BrokenBrain]

A. Healers should be AS FUN TO PLAY as ANY OTHER CLASS!!!

Your argument stems from a belief system that assigns Healing classes to have a much harder, boring, and potentially impossible task of keeping up with their friends when leveling. You claim that anyone playing a healer should expect it to be slow going, less fun, and far more tedious than other classes while soloing, etc.

Healing in cloth is a joke. You don't have the mitigation to fight elite mobs (your designation) & stay alive. You claim healing gives you an edge over a Magus ... hmmm, well, when you are healing yourself you aren't dishing out dps. Magus is all about dps, I assume, and they should have some abilities to stay alive, or at least root the mob, etc. Healers, when healing, aren't doing damage, so that edge gives them very little advantage.

Healers should be fun to play. In fact, all classes should be fun. Your claim that Healers should be unfun, or slow levelers, is really not an invitation to new players to choose to be a Healer.

Imagine the class description: Healer = A very hard class to level. Expect to kill slowly, to level slowly, but be in high demand for groups.

Healing is an ability/ same as Fireball, etc. It defines a classes roll, but it shouldn't be to their detriment.

B. WoW

I play a Pally in Wow. I'm currently level 57. I love it. Not because I'm a God, I'm not. A friend and I tried to kill a level 60 elite and got our butts handed to us in Unguro Crater, but you know what, I still had fun~!!

Pally has three specs. They are all so different and unique. I love Retribution for the mana regen, dmg adds, etc, and I really dig the ability to do great dps, heal, and have high survivability. I can be a tank, or a healer, or major DPS. It doesn't make me a GOD, it presents me with OPTIONS and doesn't demand that I play one role. I love the diversity, in fact, I would even call the WOW Paladin the perfect MMO class.

The best part or most important? It's FUN!

C. This game should be Fun. No matter what class you play!

Alganon promises to be unique. It also promises to be a very fun game. What you described for the Healing class didn't sound fun to me.

Your vision of the Healing class isn't unique. It's rather sad and depressing to think you would advocate playing a class that kills slowly, is weaker than other classes, and is, your words, less fun than other classes.

But truth be told, it's clearly what you want, & if you QQ loud enough, I'm sure you'll get it.

I found dps classes more fun to solo. But I found them less fun in groups. Nothing about standing there shooting a boss (and occasionally moving out of fires) appeals to me. On any level. And no, I didn't live at the bottom of the dps meters.

Every game will have some elements that are more fun for you and less fun. If the devs can make healers balanced and still make them fun, more power to them. But even if they are boring to level, I'll still play one to have fun while I group.

When I said at the beginning that healers were overpowered, they were literally god mode. There was not a chance in Hades that a mob would kill my healer. In fact, four mobs could not kill my healer. Elite mobs were a joke. I never had to use any special abilities like the trances. I devastated everything around me.

I played a discipline priest in WoW, and mobs hit me when I soloed. I didn't use fear, although I knew several healing priests that did. I simply put up a PW:S and went through my damage rotation, using a heal when I found it necessary. The damage can be healed through.

Granted, that was a different game, but the principle that a cloth wearer can absolutely not take a hit is not necessarily the case.

Now, I am not sure if the devs intend for us to fight elite mobs solo. I know at lower levels we do, but it seems to me a strange goal to have that every (or for that matter, any) class can solo an elite mob. Even if that is the case, my healer ended elite fights with full health and focus. All fights were completely and utterly trivialized.

I am not an extraordinarily skilled player; if I am steamrolling mobs on a healer, everyone is steamrolling mobs on a healer. If you think that the game should be designed so that any or every class is virtually invulnerable, then perhaps we just view the game too fundamentally differently to ever see eye to eye.

[eveque67]

Valid points by all but it still comes down to being fun or not. BrokenBrain made a statement about devs not intending on us soloing elite mobs. I chose to defend the opposite view. I have completed several quest chains that mostly seem to end up in killing some named mob that is in the area you have been working. Killing the elite mobs signals to me that I have completed the main questline in this area and will be moving on soon. I dont want to have to shout over and over for others to come help me. Thats not fun. Its easy enough at the low levels but everyone knows the air up higher is a little thinner. If you dont level about as fast as the pack, by the time you get there, people have moved on.

[Radium]

You present a nice idea.

However, why should a Magus solo better then a priest? Or a tank solo better than a magus/healer, or a ranger solo better or be able to take on more mobs "because" Healers are designated "support" class?"

I bought this game based on the fact that each class could do two of the three jobs we see in MMO's. The healer was of course a healer, but the other possibility was DPS. If this nerf was a sign of what is to come then the developer has abandoned their statements.

At this point I am actively discouraging any of my friends from buying the game. I want to see if QoL is leaving their stated vision or not. Bad enough I wasted my money if this turns out to be the case, but I sure do not want to talk someone else into playing if the game is not going to be what I was led to believe.

[Chyra]

While it may not be considered a nerf since it was always intended, I wasn't aware of this intention until a forum post a couple weeks ago. So it's hard not to be disappointed and have that bait and switch feeling. This is the class I've invested my time in and intended to play on release. Had I known that this was the intention way back when, I just never would have started a healer.

Occasional challenge is great. Not being able to use the majority of my skills isn't so great. Alganon always had this philosophy about not adding things unless it makes the game fun. I find nothing fun about pushback and guaranteed interrupt. I realize it's subject to more tweaking, but I just don't see any variation of pushback as leading to fun. Only way around it I can see would be to give magus and healers instant cast roots early on to at least buy time to run and nuke. The points I spent in one of my nukes slowing their runspeed had no noticeable effect.

Not meaning to sound whiny. I'm just really disappointed.

[Buffer]

Just to clarify a little... there is no nerf bat being swung. How can we possibly be nerfing something that wasn't even fully implemented yet? Pushback is a feature that's always been planned and was always going to go in.

Would it have been nice to get it right the first time we patched it in without having 100s of people pounding on it? Sure, we would have loved that! Were we able to? Obviously not. Tweaking things like this is an ongoing process and we will get it right.

Once all of our launch classes have all of their abilities and all of their actions available and once they work as originally intended it's then fair to say nerf bats have been swung when there's a significant decrease in the viability of a given build. Until then? I disagree.

Having said that we definitely do consume all of the feedback we get and the fact that there was such vehement feedback let us know we needed to look at this particular problem sooner rather than later.

Please, keep the feedback coming in full steam. However, people should realize that we are not in nerf mode and our core philosophy on class roles has not changed as we're still tweaking things to get the reality of things to match the theory.

[Buffer]

i was the one who started this chain because I finaly got a chance to play a Clothy that could solo with the best of them. After you tampered with it(notice I didn't Say Smurfed) and basically took it's ability to solo away let alone survive.If I was the only one who complained I would admit to whining however 99 other people pounded on the Smurf wagon as fast as I did. So whining may not be the term you are looking for. If you don't want negative feedback say so
I believe that this game has the ability to become the MMO that everyone has waited for so I bought the Legendary Subscription. Don't take offence but after 36 years in the Navy I can tell you undeniably that this isn"t what whining sounds like