31 replies to this topic

[Tro]

I would like to see Alganon get oushed back some more to polish it out some more. Because a main problem of the MMORPG genre is the fact that most Developers release unfinished games, and expect the community to just deal with it. These games usually flop and fail.

Please rethink your launch!

Please Release the game once the PvP is finished. And the End Game is Finished. Less Bugs, and errors also.

The game needs End Game and PvP!

Finish out at least 2(3v3) to 3(4v4) more races.

Also finish out at lease one more Melee Class, and Healer class.

[Voltron]

I would like to see Alganon get oushed back some more to polish it out some more. Because a main problem of the MMORPG genre is the fact that most Developers release unfinished games, and expect the community to just deal with it. These games usually flop and fail.

Please rethink your launch!

Please Release the game once the PvP is finished. And the End Game is Finished. Less Bugs, and errors also.

The game needs End Game and PvP!

Finish out at least 2(3v3) to 3(4v4) more races.

Also finish out at lease one more Melee Class, and Healer class.

Ugh, i hate PVP. ugh ugh ugh/
Please just cut the pvp, k, thx!

[BrokenBrain]

I don't get the impression that end-game PvP will be arena style PvP anyway, so the extra classes shouldn't matter as much. I get the impression it will be more RP-friendly mass PvP following gods into battle.

I would support pushing back launch to fix any issues with features already in the beta (i.e. broken quests, talents for abilities you don't have yet, mobs aggroing and then running off into the distance). I however, would not be all right with pushing back launch to work on adding in more content. I think right now they should be focused on polishing what's already in the game. The new features can be released in future patches.

It's also important to note that the game has already been pushed back a month from it's original start date. If they delay it again they're going to have to be very specific about what they are fixing.

[Navalli]

I will admit that I would think this game needs pushing back, but NOT for pvp or end-game content, both of which are the sorts of things which are added after release, not before.  PvP is added later to give the bored kids something to do at high levels, the same with end-game and there's still a month's time after release to worry about that.  You're forgetting the Crusades and the Dawning and all the other fun things which are being planned; raiding isn't the ONLY "end game content" that can exist.

However, at the same time, I think as far as "valid reasons" go, the primary valid reason to push the game back is that it's just not ready.  This doesn't feel like a beta game at all, let alone an open beta.  There's just so much that needs doing and working on, things that just don't seem to work, bugged quests, bugged features, balance issues with resources, balance issues with crafting, combat problems, features that aren't even ingame yet and therefore aren't being tested, so we've no idea how they'll work or even if they will.

I know that they need revenue, and I know there are loyal people willing to pay in advance - so I do not see a push back as being a horrible move.  While the impatient may clamour and cry havoc, it would be worth releasing something which is better, later, than rushing to the fore and falling flat on its face.

When the open beta begins and the Unwashed Masses come forth, I would not just dismiss their concerns as "trolls" if they say the game needs some work.  A majority vote is still a majority vote - and provided it's voiced succinctly without "This game sux!" or other such imflammible proclamations, I think it's worth listening to.

[neoterrar]

They have a roadmap of when things will get put in the game. Many people that have bought the game already are fine with this. Unfortunately, for those that are curious and check it out, I have a feeling they will be disappointed.

From reading the boards and dev statements I'm worried that basic thing aren't intended to be in by launch. Block functions on soldiers (good luck with group content without that). Magus and Ranger trees may not be fully implemented, etc.

Stability, lag, and bugs are their main concerns before launch from what I can tell. I think they will probably make significant improvements in them. But, I don't see how they'd expect people to pay to play a game with one "finished" class (Healer).

The game is fun for me. I believe the dev team will be able to do good things in next few weeks. I do not, however, think it will give a good impression to a large portion of those that try it.

[c1oudrs]

I would like to see Alganon get oushed back some more to polish it out some more.

Alganon is meant to be more of a game service than a conventional game (or so I understand from reading the interviews). If that's true, then what I hope to see at launch is a platform upon which an ongoing roll-out of new features can be built.

At launch that game platform ought to be reasonably solid. The workmanship ought to be representative of the kind of workmanship we see in the upcoming months in order for the game service to remain credible. If the current workmanship is shoddy then it needs to be polished out before launch.

Hence, I make a distinction between polish and features. Right now the game is admittedly limited on features (those chat windows that won't resize, limited character classes, etc.) However, those four classes, that chat box--they need to work as designed and give off a good initial impression so that the game developers can say, "this is the kind of game you will be enjoying--except more & richer! Look at our vision!"

In my opinion, further delays might jeopardize the game service's credibility more than any improvements might help and so I would NOT like to see Alganon pushed back any further. I would NOT like to see additional features until what we have works well enough so as to be representative of what we will be seeing in the future. Credibility is what is at stake.

As awesome as our programmers are, their backs are to the wall. There's only about 4-6 patches left before launch (21 days) to get it right. There will be time enough for new features after the launch. They can do it, but there's no more room to mess around is what I think.

[eveque67]

Pushing back further only jeopardizes image. Most players are used to push-backs. It happens frequently and always to the game WE want to play. So the initial push-back was a gimmie and easy to swallow. If it pushes back again it hints of uncertainty and suggests the game is broken and the devs are only now just finding that out. Both of which are bad.
They chose 1 month when they pushed it back. That in effect was telling the game world "We need 1 more month to be ready." If it pushes again, it says they have discovered more problems they didnt see previously or they would have chosen a time further than 1 month.

As long as the game is stable, the expansions planned will have to wait until the time they were planned. They were kind enough to post the roadmap of development. People asking for PvP and other stuff already on the roadmap are just not informed and are expecting something it is not going to be at launch.

Its not their fault for not reading the FAQ or skimming the forums. They should not be held accountable for common misconceptions. If they are common, its the advertisement departments fault for not making it clear enough what to expect. Too many people with the same question means the message isnt being understood.

I suggest perhaps a big giant banner on the home page itself saying "something" like "WHAT TO EXPECT", or "WHAT IS COMING AT RELEASE", or maybe "THE ROADMAP TO SUCCESS - Future expansions spelled out." Something eye-catching and hard to miss the dispels all the "We need to move it back because it doesn't already have blah blah blah."

[c1oudrs]

As long as the game is stable . . .

Yes! First priority! Let's get what we have working.

If the game is a little vanilla at launch--that's ok. Lets not overlook the opportunities for additional advertising here as class expansion rolls out, as pvp is released, etc.

If the reviewers call Alganon the little vanilla game with big German Chocolate plans--there's worse things. If the reviewers find the game solid but lacking in features then it plays right into Tork's hands as he can continue to sell the vision and upcoming features. People like underdogs after all and vision is one of this developer's strengths.

[Flipmode]

Well we still have a solid month before release, but in its current state, I would agree the game isnt ready for launch. The 4 classes need to be fully implemented and balanced, the server lag and stability needs to be there and all content up to max level needs to be relatively bug free.

We cant expect there will be no bugs. But lets get the tradeskills and classes working flawless, the banking and guild systems kinks ironed out, then launch the game. Any features added after only offer good marketing and incentive to play Alganon. They are headed in the right direction.

[switchfoot]

Whatever...Let's just get on with it. The game is playable and fun IMO, so let the players play and let the dev's continue to "spit and polish"!

Game On!

[aleonia]

As much as I'd like to see Alganon get to a more finished state, being that they've already pushed back the release once (I didn't think 1 month was not far enough then, and I still don't) I don't see them doing it again. It sends up too many mixed signals, like they don't have a clue what they're doing, and can't estimate their own scheduling. Which could lead to a loss of more potential customers.

[Swordmage]

I agree that pushing it back a second time (unless it is several quarters) would look pretty bad. And from a financial point of view, I don't think they can afford to miss the December sales period.

I haven't developed games, but in my experience developing large software products, it is terribly hard to estimate software development times, especially when the design keeps evolving over the development cycle. It is certainly easier for a company like SOE with a current income stream to develop a game for a while before committing to any schedule (they can do it since they aren't courting funding sources at the start of development); however, I can understand the planning squeeze that any small game company suffers (funders get antsy with statements like "we will not launch until the game is perfect").

[eveque67]

Perfect only exists in fantasy land. There will always be something to fix, add or implement. New ideas to develop etc.

Maybe we should wait for the "perfect" time to get married, when you were wealthy, plenty of time and no desire for any other woman. Maybe wait for the "perfect" time for kids. Perfect health, nice house, great school area and lots of family support. Maybe we should have waited for the perfect time for D-Day during WW2. Better weather, enemy not built up or maybe more troops or something.

Waiting for the "perfect" game will only make you a sauerkraut eating, single old man who never had kids, speaks German or Japanese and plays Checkers on Yahoo-Games.

People should learn to look for the good instead of boo-hooing all the time just because it doesn't fit their conceptions.

[neoterrar]

The perfect argument is a straw man if I ever saw one.

People here aren't asking for perfect. Stable, major bugs fixed, and the presented systems to be functional. It's not a lot to ask for, and certainly in my opinion, necessary for a successful release.

[Voltron]

Sadly, they announced an Open Beta on Nov. 11th.

That should only have been done when the game was good enough for a 12/1 Release, because the Open Beta crowd are dabblers. They have no interest in 'testing anything.' They will come, scream "WOW CLONE" Or "WOW Rip OFF" And go on and on about how Blizzard is going to make a fortune when they sue this company for making a Wow Clone. The ranters, and bad apples will tear this game apart, and IF they then announce the game was delayed again, those trolls will only laugh and say, "See, Alganon = Epic Fail!"

I agree they needed more time, but the cat is out of the bag-so-to-speak, so now only time will tell if it was a smart decision or a terrible one.

[BrokenBrain]

Maybe we should wait for the "perfect" time to get married, when you were wealthy, plenty of time and no desire for any other woman. Maybe wait for the "perfect" time for kids. Perfect health, nice house, great school area and lots of family support. Maybe we should have waited for the perfect time for D-Day during WW2. Better weather, enemy not built up or maybe more troops or something.

Not to be picky... but they did wait for weather conditions, etc. to be right for D-Day. Likewise, the Japanese waited for the "perfect" day to bomb Pearl Harbor. Anyone who wages a war on an inflexible schedule is going to lose. But that may or may not be applicable to MMORPG development.

More on topic (and not directed at the poster I'm quoting necessarily)... the OP is asking for launch to be pushed back to add more features to the game. I think the why is a very important element of this discussion that some people are glossing over.

[eveque67]

I didn't gloss anything. I thought it was pretty obvious what my opinion of moving it back was and why I felt that way.

To address the history thing, yea, they each pushed back for better conditions, but still not "perfect". That was a parallel to the devs pushing it back. It wasn't meant for a history debate, just an example that Most (and I use that generously given the education of public schools) would understand.

[BrokenBrain]

I didn't gloss anything. I thought it was pretty obvious what my opinion of moving it back was and why I felt that way.

To address the history thing, yea, they each pushed back for better conditions, but still not "perfect". That was a parallel to the devs pushing it back. It wasn't meant for a history debate, just an example that Most (and I use that generously given the education of public schools) would understand.

That's why I said the second paragraph wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was directed at the people debating whether the game was stable, when the OP was asking for a pushback to introduce new features.

I don't think it would look good at this point to push back launch regardless, but adding new features when the existing ones still need work would strike me as somewhat irresponsible.

[eveque67]

That's why I said the second paragraph wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was directed at the people debating whether the game was stable, when the OP was asking for a pushback to introduce new features.

I don't think it would look good at this point to push back launch regardless, but adding new features when the existing ones still need work would strike me as somewhat irresponsible.

I completely agree. Just what it looks like could possibly more damaging than some potential bugs to fix. If an issue was so big it was unplayable, then yea, fix it. But I think something so major would have been discovered by now. As long as its a stable and smooth product, roll on. Its the platform that was designed to be released, not the other classes.
There is still allot of time left for making sure all skills and abilities work of the stuff that is being released. The have taken us this far, have some trust that they are more aware of their capabilities to meet the deadline than we are.

[Tro]

IMO pushing back the game till is complete, shows that the developers are looking for success. Just look at Warhammer. Currently, Alganon is looking like Warhammer. Cut Classes, unfinshed End game, ext.

If Mystic had pushed the game back to polish it some more, then maybe people would have gave it a chance. Games like this always get judged when they first step through the door.

As my History teacher said "History doesnt repeat History, People Repeat History"
They are going down the same path (War, VG, AoC, DF) all went throught, and thats releaseing a unfinished game and expect people to play for a beta.

the game already has negative talk about ripping off WoW, does it really need people to add on to this that the game is Unfinshed like (War,VG, AoC,Df)?

PvP is a major standpoint in Faction based MMORPGs now days. Look at all the people that screamed for War's Hype, or the people that populate EvE. They want PvP. WoW's PvP is one of the main things that kept that game alive, since as Blizzard's Stats showed, Less then 10% of the population of WoW ever even made it to BT to fight Illidan for crying out loud. What you think those people were doing then? PvP Battle Ground Grinding! People Like PvP. Some Like Hardcore, while some like Casual, but what they both have in common, is they play and like PvP. So if you can find a blance point in the middle, then your PvP could be the backbone of this game.

End Game PvE is also very Important. Dont Skip out on this. Just look at what happen during Warhammer's Launch!! People cried out that there was nothing to do once they hit max lvl. Same thing with AoC.

As you should learn from AoC and WaR,,,, You cant just focus on the starter areas, and beginner quest, and think that will hold your playerbase. Players grow out of the early quest system. Once they done, then What is left to do? Think about that for a second. Both Warhammer and AoC's developers missed this point, and both have failed. If you focus on early quest, then what will be left for players that make it past the early stages(levels)?
End Game is very important. And without PvP in your game, the End Game will be a even more Focus. (See Why I said you should wait till the PvP is ready now?)