39 replies to this topic

[Zheng]

This is a topic that affects many things in the game, but for my purposes in this topic, it affects the two sides so I'm posting it here.

:?: How will the languages work in Crusade? Will it be a one or two language per race and no chance of learning the others? Will there be a common language between the two sides of the conflict enabling the two sides to speak to one another? Will it be possible for a person to learn other languages and if so, will it take a while or be a progressive thing?

I, for one, hated WoW's language implementation. I understand that they did it for a reason and that was to keep the two sides seperate and at war, but it defied all logic that an orc could not learn to speak common or dwarf or elvish. I mean, an orc couldn't even sit down and learn to speak tauren and they're on the same side, that's just ridiculous.

I would very much like to make it possible to learn the other side's language(s) as this would open up more roleplaying experiences and just plain not insult our intelligence as Blizzard did. Thanks.

Disclaimer: As I said, this is a big subject, and this post only discusses one facate of it. Feel free to bring up the other ones like how a language is learned and how quickly at your leisure.

[Syndic]

As you pointed out I know why WoW implemented languages as they did.

Just over the last 3 days I've had situations where the language barrier has been a bad thing on my part. I play on a carebear server so quite often I will find Alliance people in the same area as me.

The first happened yesterday when working on a quest. I was using my Eye of Kilrogg to run into a pirate camp to find the item I required. A Night Elf was off to the side pulling pirates out and killing them. Of course the eye causes agro with mobs so they were running around in circles after it. After killing my first eye I noticed the mobs rather than going back to their starting point swarmed the Night Elf. Now even though they were on the opposing side it was not my intention to cause them a death, I wanted to apologise (even though what happened should not have). Yet with no way to communicate with them there was nothing I could do.

The second happened just this weekend past. I was working towards a named mob. There was 2 I required and they were near each other. I killed the first and was making my way to the second when another Night Elf killed it before me. So I sat there waiting for respawn which thankfully for many named is not too long. While waiting, the one I had killed had respawned. The Night Elf obviously doing the same quest as me noticed the mob up and me sitting there close by. Now I know he was after the mob since he had just killed one of them. But he had not seen me kill the one I did earlier. What resulted was a confusing array of emotes as he was pointing out the mob and I was trying to tell him that it was "ok, go ahead". The range of emotes in WoW is very small, needless to say the point only got across when I refused to attack the mob while he had it beating on him. Being a high level he won out easily but he wouldn't engage the mob giving me first option even though I didn't need it.

Well the point of all that is. Communication in these games is paramount. As I've heard many a player say MMO's are chatrooms with graphics.
Even if the 2 sides had very limited but effective communication. I can see how in a PvP environment it can be used to spy etc but I think the disadvantage outway the advantages.

Another point I would like to get out there was in EQ1, EQ2 I loved the idea of getting all my languages and maxxing them out. The best part was languages from races that players can't have in particular dragon language which was later used in quests. Quests could be used to gain languages. Quests could require you to have a certain language to speak to someone or read something.

[Psiborg]

I voted for

[Syndic]

Yes the usage of the study system for languages would be a good idea. As Psi points out it would be alot better than spamming someone all day long and since the majority of the time even in RL new languages are learnt through study it seems to fit like a glove.

[lurker1]

While I am not against being able to learn languages and also hated WOW's restricted language system. I do feel that they should be just as hard to learn to speak fluently as they are in RL and that there should not be a common language that both sides just automatically know but perhaps like English is in RL there could be one that everyone can learn in time.

I am not a big fan of EQ they did more harm to MMOG's then good(but that is a rant I won't do).

Languages should not be learned by simply sitting down and spamming with a friend.

[Kragen]

The problem as i see it is that Crusade will have PvP. (on both server types)

Any game that opens itself up to trash talking between combatants will lose alot of people.

DAOC didnt allow it, WoW didnt allow it....and its for good reason. Many people who play PvE/PvP combined games often only dabble in PvP and dont need to be cursed at by someone they just killed/or got killed by.

It is simply much better to remove the ability of imature players (of which there will be many) to abuse other players.

[Syndic]

The problem as i see it is that Crusade will have PvP. (on both server types)

Any game that opens itself up to trash talking between combatants will lose alot of people.

DAOC didnt allow it, WoW didnt allow it....and its for good reason. Many people who play PvE/PvP combined games often only dabble in PvP and dont need to be cursed at by someone they just killed/or got killed by.

It is simply much better to remove the ability of imature players (of which there will be many) to abuse other players.

I know no-one likes to be abused while playing a game, but I find that the benefits of a multi language game far out way that a few players who can't control themselves. There is always the ignore feature and usually a reporting feature for players that harass others, although the problem with that is it is rarely followed through by CS.
I know exactly what you mean when you say that alot of people would leave if they find themselves continually harassed. My friend tried a WoW PvP server before any other and left within 30 mins due to the abuse he received from first creating his toon.
I would hate to see a roleplaying feature like languages be mutilated becuase of the immature actions of others.

[Kragen]

I agree that learning languages would be cool and add a great rplay element.

Just pointing out the downside

[Daffy]

Like Psiborg, I voted the "complete language freedom on both sides" solution. I've tested with Star Wars Galaxies what we can do with this kind of system, and it's a great tools for roleplay and immersive experience.

Taking the time to learn the ennemy language and use this knowledge against him is excellent. You can also imagine a secret language, use in rogues society, a language that few of people know.

One idea cross my mind, perhaps it can be cool to add some penalty to learn a language. Penalty will be compute by the race, the profession, the intelligence of the character, and anything else.

[Syndic]

One idea cross my mind, perhaps it can be cool to add some penalty to learn a language. Penalty will be compute by the race, the profession, the intelligence of the character, and anything else.

Actually that brings to mind the D&D aspect of intelligence control how many a player can learn. Although in an MMO setting where stats usually increase as you go I would maybe put a limit on how many you can learn from the start, maybe even based on race. Having everyone able to learn every language can have the effect of not having languages at all.

Mentioning Star Wars brings to mind the whole Wookie thing. Them being able to understand english but not speak it and humans able to understand Wookie but not speak it either. Adds for some interesting interaction.

[S0ulb0und]

(Changed this message due to the fact that i was thinking of a private server of WoW. Friend got me into a private server before the real game, so i could communicate with ever1.)

[Syndic]

if someone here really understand this whole language topic then can u plz explain it to me perferably by P.M. i have never seen this in games. when i played WoW i was a tauren and i communicate with night elfs and all other races just typing normally so none of this really makes sence to me :?

A Tauren would not be able to talk to Night Elves. The Horde can only talk to Horde and Alliance can only talk to Alliance. If you stood next to a person from the opposing side and spoke all they would see is gobbeldy gook. If you tried to send them a tell it says that player doesn't exist. They totally blackballed any communication between the 2 sides. Other games I have played generally have a main language that everyone knows and the extra languages are there just for fun purposes, with a bit of roleplay splashed in.

[Zianix]

This is a topic that affects many things in the game, but for my purposes in this topic, it affects the two sides so I'm posting it here.

:?: How will the languages work in Crusade? Will it be a one or two language per race and no chance of learning the others? Will there be a common language between the two sides of the conflict enabling the two sides to speak to one another? Will it be possible for a person to learn other languages and if so, will it take a while or be a progressive thing?

I, for one, hated WoW's language implementation. I understand that they did it for a reason and that was to keep the two sides seperate and at war, but it defied all logic that an orc could not learn to speak common or dwarf or elvish. I mean, an orc couldn't even sit down and learn to speak tauren and they're on the same side, that's just ridiculous.

I would very much like to make it possible to learn the other side's language(s) as this would open up more roleplaying experiences and just plain not insult our intelligence as Blizzard did. Thanks.

Disclaimer: As I said, this is a big subject, and this post only discusses one facate of it. Feel free to bring up the other ones like how a language is learned and how quickly at your leisure.

Yeah I agree with you that WoW system sucks.

[Grimmway]

Forces the use of 3rd party software, or using another player to communicate for you.

So if it isn't a good feature, go ahead and put it in? Make learning the other sides' language very time consuming?

Hire translators for money?

Grimmway

[Syndic]

I think since the barrier is quite easy to get around with some 3rd party comm program, and is quite common also, that the need to totally black out sides from each other has dwindled. Does the inconveniance of not being able to talk to friends/others on the other side outweigh that of exploiting a PvP fight? (especially considering if they want to exploit it they will find a way)

[Grimmway]

Hmm...

In a PvP zone, in-game communicatin could be limited to the current zone...

Not going to stop 3rd party tools, but would have a built-in way to focus the PvP groups on the task at hand...

Grimmway

[lostheaven77]

How about this :

Native language divided into 2 parts.

warspeak and civilspeak, during combat , your tribe forbids you from using civilspeak any at all. So this cuts out hopefully the kiddies who trash talk , but while in town or out of combat you can learn (through studying) the civilspeak.

Civilspeak allows you speak and read each tribe/nations normal lagauge.

But to learn to understand warspeak (for spies and rogue types , or good warleaders) , lets say warspeak is the native language of the temples taught or brought to the tribes through the Gods.

You would have to 1) steal or otherwise gain a book or scroll (a primer) for the warspeak. 2) a smart person doesnt let on he knows , so he doesnt speak he listens to thier chatter and relays it to the commander.

Now this brings into the conflict and learning the temples and Gods. The temples dont teach every bob and harry to speak/understand the enemy language. They teach special individuals , maybe set based on devotion or faction with the church.

Make it a real skill , I mean not 60 in a border town should be able to talk to each other , but maybe 20 people out 60.

[Grimmway]

How bout this...

Each guild/family, whatever, group, faction, buddies, can create their own dialect which acts as it's own language and is only understandable if you know the dialect.

Set a cap on characters to understand no more than 2 dozen languages and 2 dozen dialects (or somesuch), but you could always have your own private language and share it with as many people or as few as you wanted.

Heck, if you were successful enough, Zheng's Common dialect could become the unofficial language for the Asheroth!

Grimmway

[Jergis]

-While i voted that complete language freedom should be in game, i actually liked the idea behind EQ's language system that other players could teach you languages they knew. The timeframe was ridiculous but learning from other players, combined with perhaps a few 'Beginner's guide to Learning Latin" texts throughout the game would be cool. Perhaps limit texts available to just your side and a scrap of parchment drop from uglies would give you a start on other languages from far-away lands? then as you learn you could teach others? Just a thought.....Jergis

[Grimmway]

EQ's learning system was a neat touch of 'realism' to the game. (Though you could learn a language in minutes if you turned off group chat and got spammed for a while...)

Despite it's warts, it was a neat little feature. Fun on a PvP server to watch the other team use OOC to coordinate a zone-wide attack, and not realize that you too understood Elder Dragon..

This was an old post to bump. Glad to see more activity on the boards!

Grimmway