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Skillset overlaps


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#1 Zheng

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 06:58 AM

I didn't play Guild Wars for more than a day or two as I didn't find it fun but one idea I loved that I would like to see evolved is skills that complement and overlap onto one another.

:arrow: Example:
I am a master swordsman and pretty good at lightning magic. I would like to see special moves/combos I can do with my magic that involve my sword. I want to shock the bejeebus out of them when I strike or strike as quick as lighting giving me extra attacks that round.

These are just example for skills I made up for the sake of example.

The permutations of 20 different skillsets would be fantastic and make for an incredibly varied number of character options. I think this is one reason that CoH and CoV are so fun even though there really is only one thing to do in that game...fight. You could make so many varied characters with different themes and abilities that complemented different playstyles.

#2 Retina

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 04:24 PM

Now are you talking overlaps or perhaps compliments? I guess they're similar, but think about this:

I love the idea of complimentary abilities: I do move A, you now get a damage bonus if you do move B or a bigger effect if you do move C. There are so many abilities in MMOs that are the exact opposite of this that it's quite annoying. If I do ability A and anyone does damage to the mob, A ends. What you rarely see is the first example: true compliments.

Also, when you described "shock"ing the enemy, what popped into my mind was a Presence Attack from the Hero System. You do something to make your target pause or jump or whatever, basically you cause them to delay their action because you overpowered them with your sheer force of personality. Anyone can attempt it, but they're hard to do well. I guess it's not that different from the Mez concept, except that anyone can try it. Mez just seems so boring compared to stunning them with your personality :)

#3 Syndic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 12:08 AM

More on the overlapping side of things than the compliments. I prefer systems where there a multiple ways of getting the same effect. This doesn't nessacarily mean to the same power of effectiveness but along the lines of the same result.

For example - Ressurection. There should not be 1 skill that does ressurection and ressurection only. As seen in many recent games multiple classes are given these types of skills, to varying degrees. The reason being, in the past when this was given to one class and it was seen as a necessary skill for adventuring you find yourself with people complelled to go that class (or in this case would be skill tree).

Giving multiple skill trees this ability alleviates the need for these to HAVE to the taken. The end result maybe that someone gets ressed but each tree could have different costs in the effect or maybe different effects to the player that is ressed but they would essentially all fill the same role.

Although res was used as an example this goes for nearly any aspect of a skill tree (healing, damage, buffing, weapon use, armour use etc etc).

I guess this comes down to how the skills are laid out and how diverse a player can go.

I love the idea of complimentary abilities: I do move A, you now get a damage bonus if you do move B or a bigger effect if you do move C.

Seems like an interesting idea but sounds a little like Street Fighter play style to me. With combination ideas unless mobs were able to do anti-combo moves what is to stop players from doing nothing but combos.

EQ2's Heroic Oppurtunities reminds me of this actually and was a cool idea, but it required a group of players to complete (although solo ones were there the bonus from them was minimal) and some people thought them as more trouble then they are worth. It relied on a person starting the combo string and then every player completing a certain move within a certain timeframe to give a certain result. Horizons had co-ordinated attacks in that someone used theirs and for everyone after that it gained a bonus, but I never managed to see it in action so it was as if it didn't exist.

#4 Retina

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:09 PM

More on the overlapping side of things than the compliments. I prefer systems where there a multiple ways of getting the same effect. This doesn't necessarily mean to the same power of effectiveness but along the lines of the same result.

Your example of Res is right. There shouldn't be just one class or skill that does it. I'd like to see at least one spell, one skill and some kind of coordinated action by two or more people to also res someone.


Seems like an interesting idea but sounds a little like Street Fighter play style to me. With combination ideas unless mobs were able to do anti-combo moves what is to stop players from doing nothing but combos.

Of course mobs could interrupt them. Stun is a very common ability for mobs.

What stops you from only doing combos is that you may not notice that someone else did a particular move (ie based on your INT or WIS or something), so you don't get the option of a good combo move. You also may not have enough power or energy or mana to do the appropriate ability. But, you might also have several choices of abilities to use. This allows for more interesting combo play. Other limiting factors are simply refresh timers.

EQ2's Heroic Oppurtunities reminds me of this actually...

I really wasn't happy with EQ2s implementation. It was too rigid (when I played, at the beginning). You really only had one choice and it really forced you to play a certain way. I guess what I was talking about would give more options and the bonus for doing them was good, but perhaps not enough for you to choose to do something else.

#5 Zheng

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 11:30 PM

Combos and heroic opportunity-type things are another subject entirely that I would happily comment on should you start the thread, but this is about skillset affecting one another and perhaps when we learn more about studies, we can add those in the mix also.

Here's hoping they give us the lowdown on studies soon.

#6 Grimmway

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 12:46 PM

This sounds similar to the skill synergies in Diablo 2. Certain skills affect other skills in varying degrees - more damage, less mana, more effect, etc..

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